Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

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uncle tom
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Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by uncle tom » 09:52 Mon 03 Sep 2007

I've had my doubts about the '92 vintage for some time.

Mayson rates it above '91, but he seems alone with that view - Broadbent's notes are less than enthusiastic..

One of my worst encounters of the last year (for a bottle that was not obviously faulty) was a Vesuvio '92, and the last offline has revealed a marked lack of enthusiasm for the Fonseca.

Yet the wines trade at prices that are well above the '91's, and sometimes ahead of the '94's

Was Taylor's tercentenary too important a landmark? No-one seems to have a bad word to say about the Vargellas '91..

Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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KillerB
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Post by KillerB » 10:31 Mon 03 Sep 2007

It was more than a marked lack of enthusiasm for the Fonseca 1992, it was total, absolute and infinite (wait for jdaw on that one). It wasn't that it was bad it was just uninteresting in the company that it was keeping.

Yesterday morning there were only three bottles with juice in - 1920, 1992 and 2000. The 1920 was more novelty than anything else, having had a difficult dotage in Derek's company, but still quite enjoyable. The 2000 is just too young and harsh. The 1992 was just dull and had the most remaining.
Port is basically a red drink

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jdaw1
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1992s

Post by jdaw1 » 15:48 Mon 03 Sep 2007

That Fonseca 1992 really wasn’t liked at all. I don’t own many (any?) 1992s, and I haven’t been encouraged to do so.

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Post by Conky » 16:00 Mon 03 Sep 2007

Sorry to continue on about this bottle of Fonseca 92, but...

I now have a third to a half of a Decanter of this stuff in the fridge! I think its one of the few times I have had to try to reduce VP to a drinkable state. Unless its really young, and on that note, I also have half a decanter of 2000.
You can imagine the fuss and palaver, if it had been the 63 and the 66. We'd have been like Drug Barons, sharing the spoils down to the iota. :D

Sadly I cant remember any other 92's I've had to further this debate more.

Alan

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Post by John Danza » 02:45 Tue 04 Sep 2007

Could it just be shut down at this age? Both Suckling and Parker gave it high marks. It is still pretty young.

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jdaw1
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other than a giant vintage … too old to be shut down

Post by jdaw1 » 07:22 Tue 04 Sep 2007

John Danza wrote:Could it just be shut down at this age? Both Suckling and Parker gave it high marks. It is still pretty young.
It’s 15. For something other than a giant vintage I’d have thought that too old to be shut down.

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RonnieRoots
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Post by RonnieRoots » 11:18 Tue 04 Sep 2007

Interesting topic. The only 92's that I remember to have had are the Vesuvio and Passadouro. The Vesuvio was indeed a bit disappointing, but that could also have something to do with the fact that it was still one of the early vintages under the new regime. The Passadouro was nice enough, but showing a bit old.

I would love to try some of the big names and compare them to the 91's.

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uncle tom
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Post by uncle tom » 11:54 Tue 04 Sep 2007

I would love to try some of the big names and compare them to the 91's
Assuming the Xmas bash at The Bell comes off, I could include a Graham '91 and Taylor '92 in the line-up - but I'm not keen to have too many youngsters in the squad!

Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Post by John Danza » 15:17 Tue 04 Sep 2007

I've got some bottles that I bought at issue. I'll pop one open this weekend, give it about 12 hours in the decanter and see how it is. I'll report back results. It'll be dissappointing if it's not holding together.

All the best,
John

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Post by Andy Velebil » 19:12 Tue 04 Sep 2007

RonnieRoots wrote:The Passadouro was nice enough, but showing a bit old.
Ronnie,

I had the Passadouro from a magnum about a year ago and I thought it was showing at its peak. I'm sure a regular 750 bottle would show a touch more age on it. I think this is one to start drinking if you've got 'em.

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Post by RonnieRoots » 20:57 Tue 04 Sep 2007

I haven't got any, but tasted it a couple of years ago at the quinta. I thought it was nice then, but definitely not something to keep.

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Post by DRT » 01:12 Wed 05 Sep 2007

Tom,

I don't think The Bell allow under 40's in the bar :lol:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"

Ernest H. Cockburn

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Chris Doty
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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by Chris Doty » 18:38 Tue 25 May 2010

Just seeing this thread now, and wondering if there is anything people would like to add.

My experience w/ 1992 is fairly limited (Vesuvio, Fonseca, and Niepoort), but it is fairly 'meh' to my palate, with the Niepoort showing much better than the other two, but not close to its 1994 or even 2003. Still, it is fairly cheap, recently selling for ~32gbp per bottle.

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by John Danza » 18:57 Tue 25 May 2010

Chris Doty wrote:Just seeing this thread now, and wondering if there is anything people would like to add.

My experience w/ 1992 is fairly limited (Vesuvio, Fonseca, and Niepoort), but it is fairly 'meh' to my palate, with the Niepoort showing much better than the other two, but not close to its 1994 or even 2003. Still, it is fairly cheap, recently selling for ~32gbp per bottle.
IMHO, Fonseca made an excellent port in 1992. I opened a bottle about a year ago and the wine is still too young to open. My notes show that I'll be trying another bottle in 3-5 years. I can't compare it to 1994 or 2003, but I think it's an excellent vintage.
John Danza

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by Portman » 17:15 Wed 26 May 2010

I picked up a six pack of Vesuvio 1992 a couple years ago and drank them all over a year as cellar defenders. Every bottle was consistently underwhelming, marked by thin fruit and a woody, disjointed character. Not horrible, but certainly not up to expectations. They all seemed much older than their actual age and unlike other vintage Vesuvios I know and love.

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by Roy Hersh » 18:17 Wed 26 May 2010

I have very much enjoyed the read in this thread. Great info.

For a USA historical perspective, I still have my original prices paid "pre-release" for the 1992s:

Taylor $27
Fonseca $27
Quinta do Infantado $29
Warre's Cavadinha $29
Cockburn's Canais $20
Niepoort $29
Martinez Eira Velha $15
Vesuvio $31


How crazy is it that the Vesuvio, Niepoort, Infantado and Cavadinha ... were actually priced above Taylor/Fonseca at that time?

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by John Danza » 19:22 Wed 26 May 2010

I find it kind of interesting that one clearly bad bottle of Fonseca is leading a host of people to conclude that the 1992 vintage was over-hyped. It sounds like there's a general concensus that Vesuvio is not good. There was a mention of Passadouro, however my experience is that this wine struggles to be much better than ruby port in even the best of vintages. All of my experiences with 1992 Fonseca has shown it to be an excellent, although still too young, vintage port.
John Danza

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uncle tom
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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by uncle tom » 00:57 Thu 27 May 2010

Since launching this thread nearly three years ago, I have come to the conclusion that teenage bottles too often disappoint; and are therefore best left alone.

A '91 vs '92 event needs to be held at some point; but maybe not for a year or two..

Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by Roy Hersh » 07:24 Thu 27 May 2010

Do the 1991 vs. 1992 whenever you want but in 2012, there should be a 100 year retrospective of the 1912 Vintage Ports (& Madeiras), preferably on the 100th anniversary of the infamous sinking of the Titanic in April 1912. I'd fly over for that with a bottle in hand! :D Heck, I'd even help in organizing it with some crazy old bottles.

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by Portman » 14:13 Thu 27 May 2010

Uncle Tom,

That is an interesting thought that I have had a few times as well. It often seems that vintage port can go through an extended "dumb phase", but while I have experience drinking young and teenaged port, I dont have the heavy experience drinking the mature stuff like some of you do. Do you think there is a rule of thumb that applies, such as don't touch between 10 and 20 years? Obviously if you have a case of a wine you can crack a bottle every 5 years to see how it is progressing, but what if you have a single bottle of, say, Delaforce 1997?

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by Andy Velebil » 14:46 Thu 27 May 2010

Portman wrote:I picked up a six pack of Vesuvio 1992 a couple years ago and drank them all over a year as cellar defenders. Every bottle was consistently underwhelming, marked by thin fruit and a woody, disjointed character. Not horrible, but certainly not up to expectations. They all seemed much older than their actual age and unlike other vintage Vesuvios I know and love.
I too have generally been under-impressed with the 1992 Vesuvio. Clearly 1991 was a better year for this Quinta and is significantly better IMO. But if you can find it cheap, the 1992 does make a good cellar defender.

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by John Danza » 15:19 Thu 27 May 2010

uncle tom wrote:A '91 vs '92 event needs to be held at some point; but maybe not for a year or two..
Great idea Tom. It would be good to do it in 2011 or 2012 as the 20th anniversary of one of the two vintages.
John Danza

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uncle tom
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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by uncle tom » 17:47 Thu 27 May 2010

Portman,

I have sometimes referred to ports going through a 'Kevin' phase

This should give you some idea (courtesy of Harry Enfield..):

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gua ... 2kevin.jpg

Tom
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by g-man » 18:21 Thu 27 May 2010

Hairy, pale and orange?
Disclosure: Distributor of Quevedo wines and Quinta do Gomariz

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Re: Is '92 the most over-hyped vintage?

Post by Andy Velebil » 20:18 Thu 27 May 2010

uncle tom wrote:Portman,

I have sometimes referred to ports going through a 'Kevin' phase

This should give you some idea (courtesy of Harry Enfield..):

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Gua ... 2kevin.jpg

Tom
I was wondering what a "Kevin" was...the picture told me all I needed to know. :lol:

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