On the hunt for a 93!

[ThomasBarleycorn]

Hello all,

I'm once again on the hunt for a bottle of 1993 port, maybe a couple. Not going to be vintage but the more I've looked into 93's there is still a wide range of LBV's out there. Many thanks for all help and advise given, have plenty of 1994's and 1991's but still on the look out for 93's. Can always trade some Bordeaux or Rhone Valley 93's at a push.

Best,

Thomas

[jdaw1]

I have none, but good luck.

[Alex Bridgeman]

The very best of luck. Even the LBVs are over £100 per bottle due to their rarity.

[akzy]

Since we last spoke, I managed to pick up a Cockburn Anno LBV 93 for only £25. It is possible, just bluddy difficult!

[ThomasBarleycorn]

That's very good luck, where from?!

[akzy]

Four walls wine company. I was browsing for other wines (online) and it was just there!

[Alex Bridgeman]

Zak (and anyone else looking for a 1993 vintage wine) - I tasted the Barbeito 1993 Sercial yesterday and thought it remarkably good. If you like Madeira, this would be an excellent wine to accumulate for your future birthdays.

[Chris Doty]

93! Is a game going vintage for red burgundy and champagne. You should be so lucky!

1984 gives me California and six dudes in Australia.

(Kidding, see prior tastings & ... )

Your hunt is elsewhere

[akzy]

I resorted to tokaji Chris. Any recommendations for burgundy or champagne from this vintage?

[Chris Doty]

Cellartracker.com is my goto source for up to date drinking windows, which for burgundy is the most important aspect within your control.

For champagne it’s more what’s available, and I think basically everything is well bought

[Chris Doty]

On the subject of champagne not being available, I reloaded 93tcmcR

[winesecretary]

@ Zak - There's also a delicious D'Oliveira's 1993 Boal.

[akzy]

@ Zak - There's also a delicious D'Oliveira's 1993 Boal.

Cheers George. I'll give it a hunt.

[Chris Doty]

On the chopping block, another 93

[akzy]

On the chopping block, another 93

Unfortunately that hasn't come across to well.

[MigSU]

That's a brilliant picture.

[DRT]

Hello all,

I'm once again on the hunt for a bottle of 1993 port, maybe a couple. Not going to be vintage but the more I've looked into 93's there is still a wide range of LBV's out there. Many thanks for all help and advise given, have plenty of 1994's and 1991's but still on the look out for 93's. Can always trade some Bordeaux or Rhone Valley 93's at a push.

Best,

Thomas

I have these half bottles which were purchased from the quinta in 2006 and have been properly stored ever since. I would be willing to part with one or two but they would not be cheap. Please PM me if interested.
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tempImageMs0ibV.gif (141.6 KiB) Viewed 10124 times

[MigSU]

Hello all,

I'm once again on the hunt for a bottle of 1993 port, maybe a couple. Not going to be vintage but the more I've looked into 93's there is still a wide range of LBV's out there. Many thanks for all help and advise given, have plenty of 1994's and 1991's but still on the look out for 93's. Can always trade some Bordeaux or Rhone Valley 93's at a push.

Best,

Thomas

I have these half bottles which were purchased from the quinta in 2006 and have been properly stored ever since. I would be willing to part with one or two but they would not be cheap. Please PM me if interested.
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Quinta das Liceiras 1993

I never understood why that wine is so expensive! Is it really that good?

[jdaw1]

I never understood why that wine is so expensive! Is it really that good?

Quinta das Liceiras 1993 is likely to be somewhere between bad and undrinkable, and has a terrible label. Do you want a ’93, or do you want a drink?

[JacobH]

I never understood why that wine is so expensive! Is it really that good?

Isn’t it both the best wine of the Vintage and also the best wine of that Quinta?

I presume when DRT says they have been “properly stored” he means he’s been keeping them in 40°C heat to turn them into Madeira

[akzy]

Having tried it, it's actually in a pretty good state. The reason it's expensive is because it's the only option for 93.

http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 93#p115114

[DRT]

Having tried it, it's actually in a pretty good state. The reason it's expensive is because it's the only option for 93.

http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 93#p115114

Exactly. My son was born in that year and this is the only stock he will ever have the chance to taste from his birth year. I have never tasted it.

[DRT]

I never understood why that wine is so expensive! Is it really that good?

I make no claim that it is good, bad or indifferent, just that it is the only VP produced from that vintage so is extremely rare.

[akzy]

Exactly. My son was born in that year and this is the only stock he will ever have the chance to taste from his birth year. I have never tasted it.

Given you have so many, you should try at least one... Sooner rather than later.

[JacobH]

Exactly. My son was born in that year and this is the only stock he will ever have the chance to taste from his birth year. I have never tasted it.

Do you know how / why they made a 1993 as their one-and-only Vintage Port?

(I assume if there was a birth in the family, a private reserve tawny would be more obvious. Or a blend of 1994 and 1992 as I think Sophia Bergqvist said they did at Qdl Rosa!)

[akzy]

Or a blend of 1994 and 1992 as I think Sophia Bergqvist said they did at Qdl Rosa!

The blend was very much "I have a bottle of 1992 and 1994 - let's mix". The cask in the lodge is nothing but a ruse apparently!

[DRT]

Exactly. My son was born in that year and this is the only stock he will ever have the chance to taste from his birth year. I have never tasted it.

Given you have so many, you should try at least one... Sooner rather than later.

I purchased them for my son and will taste one when he is ready to open it.

[DRT]

Exactly. My son was born in that year and this is the only stock he will ever have the chance to taste from his birth year. I have never tasted it.

Do you know how / why they made a 1993 as their one-and-only Vintage Port?

(I assume if there was a birth in the family, a private reserve tawny would be more obvious. Or a blend of 1994 and 1992 as I think Sophia Bergqvist said they did at Qdl Rosa!)

They also bottled the 1992 and perhaps some others. The quinta is a vineyard that is part of Romaneira and is therefore similar concept to the few bottling of Qunita do Marco produced around the same time by Noval.

[JacobH]

They also bottled the 1992 and perhaps some others. The quinta is a vineyard that is part of Romaneira and is therefore similar concept to the few bottling of Qunita do Marco produced around the same time by Noval.

Ah, interesting. VintagePort.se suggests the only other ones were a 1992 and a 2000 (without the “Quinta das”). A rather odd experiment by any standards!

[MigSU]

I never understood why that wine is so expensive! Is it really that good?

I make no claim that it is good, bad or indifferent, just that it is the only VP produced from that vintage so is extremely rare.

I know, but still......€400+ per bottle for a - at best - passable Port? Jeez.

[DRT]

I never understood why that wine is so expensive! Is it really that good?

I make no claim that it is good, bad or indifferent, just that it is the only VP produced from that vintage so is extremely rare.

I know, but still......€400+ per bottle for a - at best - passable Port? Jeez.

I didn't name a price, and they are available at almost half that amount so I am not really sure what point you are trying to make. Things have a price, which is different to the value placed on them by those who want or need to have them. I think Ferraris, Rolex watches and first editions of the Beano are ridiculously expensive, but I don't want one and am happy to leave them to those who do

[akzy]

I know, but still......€400+ per bottle for a - at best - passable Port? Jeez.

The supply is low so we have these inflated wine searcher prices. Keeping your eyes peeled they pop up for under €200 now and then.

[JacobH]

I know, but still......€400+ per bottle for a - at best - passable Port? Jeez.

The supply is low so we have these inflated wine searcher prices. Keeping your eyes peeled they pop up for under €200 now and then.

If you see the Quinta das Liceiras 1993 at less than €200 a bottle you have to be careful in case it's a Fonseca 1992 with a fake label

[DRT]

I know, but still......€400+ per bottle for a - at best - passable Port? Jeez.

The supply is low so we have these inflated wine searcher prices. Keeping your eyes peeled they pop up for under €200 now and then.

If you see the Quinta das Liceiras 1993 at less than €200 a bottle you have to be careful in case it's a Fonseca 1992 with a fake label

[MigSU]

I never understood why that wine is so expensive! Is it really that good?

I make no claim that it is good, bad or indifferent, just that it is the only VP produced from that vintage so is extremely rare.

I know, but still......€400+ per bottle for a - at best - passable Port? Jeez.

I didn't name a price, and they are available at almost half that amount so I am not really sure what point you are trying to make. Things have a price, which is different to the value placed on them by those who want or need to have them. I think Ferraris, Rolex watches and first editions of the Beano are ridiculously expensive, but I don't want one and am happy to leave them to those who do

I understand your point of "a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it", but I suppose I was never one to subscribe to that particular 'philosophy' (even though it's clearly a real thing).
I own no VPs from my birth year, as it's a terrible, terrible year. Ideally I'd own a few bottles, but whenever I see some come up for auction the price never reflects the (lack of) quality of the wine inside. I guess I'm just not that into symbolism

[Chris Doty]

I understand your point of "a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it", but I suppose I was never one to subscribe to that particular 'philosophy' (even though it's clearly a real thing).
I own no VPs from my birth year, as it's a terrible, terrible year. Ideally I'd own a few bottles, but whenever I see some come up for auction the price never reflects the (lack of) quality of the wine inside. I guess I'm just not that into symbolism

Port price expectations are ludicrously low. A burgundy half this rare, even pure vinegar, would sell for thousands

[MigSU]

I understand your point of "a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it", but I suppose I was never one to subscribe to that particular 'philosophy' (even though it's clearly a real thing).
I own no VPs from my birth year, as it's a terrible, terrible year. Ideally I'd own a few bottles, but whenever I see some come up for auction the price never reflects the (lack of) quality of the wine inside. I guess I'm just not that into symbolism

Port price expectations are ludicrously low. A burgundy half this rare, even pure vinegar, would sell for thousands

Perhaps. But rarity does not guarantee a good product. I'm willing to pay for quality, but not for rarity.


On a slight side note, and speaking as someone with his feet firmly on Douro ground: I'm glad that good quality Port is still a product that is somewhat affordable for the people that actually make it (by which of course I mean the people that work the wineries and vineyards, not CEOs). I dread to see the day when that is not the case, when the internal market is priced out of quality Port.

But I digress.

[DRT]

I understand your point of "a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it", but I suppose I was never one to subscribe to that particular 'philosophy' (even though it's clearly a real thing).
I own no VPs from my birth year, as it's a terrible, terrible year. Ideally I'd own a few bottles, but whenever I see some come up for auction the price never reflects the (lack of) quality of the wine inside. I guess I'm just not that into symbolism

Port price expectations are ludicrously low. A burgundy half this rare, even pure vinegar, would sell for thousands

This.

[DRT]

I guess I'm just not that into symbolism

Which is absolutely fine. Others are and don't need to feel they shouldn't. Each to their own.

[JacobH]

I understand your point of "a product is worth what someone is willing to pay for it", but I suppose I was never one to subscribe to that particular 'philosophy' (even though it's clearly a real thing).
I own no VPs from my birth year, as it's a terrible, terrible year. Ideally I'd own a few bottles, but whenever I see some come up for auction the price never reflects the (lack of) quality of the wine inside. I guess I'm just not that into symbolism

I agree. I have never understood the birth year wine thing. But then I have never really understood collecting things when their scarcity is entirely disproportionate to their quality. For example, I was looking at the prices of antique stamps yesterday. You could buy a Penny Black in good condition for about £50. But if it has a certain watermark, it might cost you £1,000! I can never get my head around that. And I say that as someone who collects a lot of different things.

Port price expectations are ludicrously low. A burgundy half this rare, even pure vinegar, would sell for thousands

On a slight side note, and speaking as someone with his feet firmly on Douro ground: I'm glad that good quality Port is still a product that is somewhat affordable for the people that actually make it (by which of course I mean the people that work the wineries and vineyards, not CEOs). I dread to see the day when that is not the case, when the internal market is priced out of quality Port.

I, respectfully, disagree with Chris here. Burgundy prices are entirely insane. Ditto claret. I know that, and can understand why, some of the Port shippers look wistfully over to France or the States but there is not particular reason why prices should be so high. And, as you say, drinking first rate claret or burgundy is already out of the reach to people on average salaries and it would be a shame if that happened to Port, too.

[Chris Doty]

I, respectfully, disagree with Chris here. Burgundy prices are entirely insane. Ditto claret. I know that, and can understand why, some of the Port shippers look wistfully over to France or the States but there is not particular reason why prices should be so high.

And, as you say, drinking first rate claret or burgundy is already out of the reach to people on average salaries and it would be a shame if that happened to Port, too.
[/quote]

So...burgundy is crazy expensive. So is Bordeaux. So is Napa. Been to champagne lately?! Piedmont?! Germany?! So if the entire wine world is cray expensive ... and port is dirt cheap... aren’t we making my point?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m trilled port is cheap a f

The whole reason I got into port when moved to London is that it’s 35pct cheaper on your side of the pond (we fetishize old wines, not having many domestics). I want port to stay free, but let’s be real. The very rarest and maybe not always the best but least likely to ever seen again.... those should start around $1,000 per 750, which would still be insanely cheap next to right bank cults or Any CdN red burg

[Chris Doty]

And I say that as someone who collects a lot of different things.

Well met

[JacobH]

So...burgundy is crazy expensive. So is Bordeaux. So is Napa. Been to champagne lately?! Piedmont?! Germany?! So if the entire wine world is cray expensive ... and port is dirt cheap... aren’t we making my point?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m trilled port is cheap a f

The whole reason I got into port when moved to London is that it’s 35pct cheaper on your side of the pond (we fetishize old wines, not having many domestics). I want port to stay free, but let’s be real. The very rarest and maybe not always the best but least likely to ever seen again.... those should start around $1,000 per 750, which would still be insanely cheap next to right bank cults or Any CdN red burg

I guess I’m not sure I think that the entire wine world is crazy expensive. For every over-priced bottle of claret, champagne or barolo that gets sold, there is one insanely under-priced bottle of sherry, tokaji, Muscat de Rivesaltes etc. etc. Or even with table wine: prices might be creeping up in the Douro but there are stacks of affordable ones from there and other regions that would probably prevail in a re-run of the Judgement of Paris...

Sadly COVID means I haven’t been to any of those places since a trip to Turin + Alba for the truffle festival in November 2019 but that’s another story!

[MigSU]

You're all invited to a Port & Douro DOC extravaganza.

[Chris Doty]

You're all invited to a Port & Douro DOC extravaganza.

I know no category of wine more undervalued than red 2011 Douro doc

Ymmv

[jdaw1]

I, respectfully, disagree with Chris here. Burgundy prices are entirely insane. Ditto claret.

I think that was complete agreement, so no need to be respectful.

In the UK well-made wine can cost as little as a minimum-wage hour. No, not connoisseur-fancy, nor rare, but still well-made wine which can be drunk with pleasure — which I do drink with pleasure. To live here in this age is a fine privilege.

[Chris Doty]

This^

[DRT]

So...burgundy is crazy expensive. So is Bordeaux. So is Napa. Been to champagne lately?! Piedmont?! Germany?! So if the entire wine world is cray expensive ... and port is dirt cheap... aren’t we making my point?

Yes.

Compared to those regions new vintages of top quality VP are very inexpensive. The best of the VPs are priced at around the same as 5th growth claret and (astonishingly) are about the same price as a 1985 from the same house. I can completely understand why the Port producers are charging the prices they are for the special releases of mature VP and Colheita ports in recent years. Can you imagine the price of a 100 yr old ex-cellers Ch Lafite?

[MigSU]

So...burgundy is crazy expensive. So is Bordeaux. So is Napa. Been to champagne lately?! Piedmont?! Germany?! So if the entire wine world is cray expensive ... and port is dirt cheap... aren’t we making my point?

No.
Those places are overpriced, driven by people with more money than sense that lack a broader knowledge of wine-producing regions around the world (i.e., they are ignorant of the fact that fantastic wine can be found in many different regions, at all sorts of price points and in all sorts of styles). This is then compounded by opportunists and wine brokers, that buy to sell, further driving up prices.

Port is priced fairly (the fact that those prices don't then 'trickle down' to the price at which big Port houses buy their grapes is a topic for another time). Except for 'regular' vintage Ports from brands that now have super-mega-premium Ports (your Stone Terraces, Capela, etc) - these are now overpriced.
Think about it:

- these premium Ports are made from the allegedly best plots;
- so before they came about the grapes from these plots were going into the 'regular' vintage Ports;
- which means that 'regular' VPs are now made without the grapes from the allegedly best plots, so, technically, the average quality of the grapes went down;
- they remain at the same price, though.


'Regular' VPs from shippers with premium VPs are now overpriced, QED.

[hadge]

I find this is a very interesting debate and pleased to know that I have more money than sense and I lack a broad knowledge of wine regions because I buy Burgundy and Bordeaux EP.

I was just looking at the Port EP prices vs Bordeaux vs Burgundy, yes there is a large gap at the very very top but less so below

but in Burgundy EP you can pick up amazing 1er Cru for the same price as Sandeman or Taylors 18 EP, even some GC in the CdB if you like the hill of Corton.

In Bordeaux you can get Gruaud Larose, Leoville Poyferre which are 2ème Cru Classé for the same price above.

yes, I agree that DRC, Leroy, Haut Brion, Margaux, etc are priced on a different level vs the new premium Ports.

The interesting part of this debate is that we are saying £325 for 6 wines in-bond is cheap!