1994s, Tue 16 Nov 2021

[jdaw1]

This post to hold plans as and when agreed.

Date: Tue 16 Nov 2021

Where: The Red Room, Boot & Flogger. (Reservation acknowledged and accepted by Gary at 15:07 on Wed 31 Mar 2021. Confirmed by the computer Tue 07 Sep 2021, “14 people on Tuesday 16 November 5pm to 11pm … reference: DMN-16738297119”.)

People:

1. JDAW;
2. SCD;
3. HTWH;
4. TC;
5. AHB;
6. CPR;
7. MPM;
8. ZDR;
9. WHW;
10. RON;
11. IDJ;
12. GEAG;
13. NAC;
14. CMAG.

Waitlist:

• GEE.

Bottles available, a subset of which chosen:

1. Burmester — WHW;
2. Cá = Cálem — JMK, HWH;
3. Ck = Cockburn — IDJ, HWH;
4. Cr = Croft — TC, HWH;
5. Df = Delaforce — IDJ;
6. D = Dow — JMK, WHW, CPR, GEAG, GEE;
7. EV = Eira Velha — CPR, HWH;
8. Fr = Ferreira — WHW;
9. F = Fonseca — GEE, TC, PW (inconvenient);
10. GC = Gould Campbell — GEAG, NAC;
11. G = Graham — JMK, WHW, CPR, PW (inconvenient), GEE, GEE (magnum), HWH, HWH (magnum);
12. K = Kopke — CPR;
13. Mz = Martinez — AHB, HWH;
14. Ni = Niepoort — WHW, HWH, PW cask sample in ½;
15. N = Noval — JMK, GEE;
16. NN = Noval Nacional — TC;
17. Ps = Passadouro — NAC, HWH;
18. P&W = Paxton & Whitfield — AHB;
19. QH = Quarles Harris — HWH;
20. RP = Ramos Pinto — WHW, GEE;
21. RPE = Ramos Pinto Ervamoira — CPR;
22. Ra = Romaneira — WHW;
23. Rs = Rosa — GEAG, PW, NAC;
24. RO = Royal Oporto — PW;
25. S = Sandeman — JMK, HWH;
26. SW = Smith Woodhouse — GEAG;
27. Ts = Tesco (QH?) — JMK;
28. T = Taylor — JMK, GEAG, GEE (magnum), NAC, NAC (magnum);
29. V = Vesuvio — GEAG, PW (inconvenient), GEE;
30. W = Warre — GEAG, PW (inconvenient), HWH, HWH (double-magnum).

Current draft of the placemats.

[jdaw1]

My recollection of the 1994 disagrees with that of others whose judgement I respect. You know what this means.

Tuesday 16th November 2021?

Edit — previous 1994 horizontals:

• 11 June 2019 (review, planning, placemats);
• 04 Mar 2014 (review, planning);
• 08 Sep 2009 (review, planning, placemats);
• 11 Dec 2007 (review, planning, placemats).

---

How big a tasting? The binding constraint might be table size. The Red Room table is tight with fourteen × 3 × A4. If there are nineteen glasses we can use A3 + A4, underlapping the A4 by ≈64mm. (Radius ≈ 118.978pt ≈ 1.65″ ≈ 41.97mm.)



Or twenty-one on A2 trimmed to be 1″ = 25.4mm taller than A4, and 86.0mm ≈ 3.39″ less wide than 3×A4. (Radius ≈ 122.841pt ≈ 1.71″ ≈ 43.34mm.)



Original plan was nineteen; later upgraded to twenty-one.

---

Which Ports?

This part of the post will be edited as the set of available Ports changes.

Currently available are 30 different 1994s: B, Cá, Ck, Cr, Df, D, EV, Fr, F, GC, G, K, Mz, Ni, N, NN, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Ra, Rs, RO, S, SW, Ts, T, V, W.

Wine-Searcher suggests that availability is:
Good — Ck, Cr, D, F (expensive), G, QH, Rs, SW, T, V, W;
Some — Df, GC, Ni, N (expensive), NN (expensive), Ps, RP, S, Sk;
Little — B, Cá, EV, Fr, K, RPE, Ra, RO, Ts.

• Exclude NN on grounds of cost.
• So prioritise the RP-RPE pair over the N-NN pair (also see comment of GEAG).
• The purported Skeffington has already been drunk (!), and has been replaced with Kopke.
• General agreement to remove pre-Symington Cockburn, it being replaced with Cálem.
• Team seemed keen on Mz; and I on Fr.

Updated selection: Cá, Cr, Df, D, Fr, F, GC, G, K, Mz, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, T, V, W.

Comment? Agreement? Objections?

[Doggett]

Yes please...will check bottles

[PhilW]

yes please

[forest26]

Yes please

[jdaw1]

Dates switched Thu to Tue.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Yes please.

[CPR 1]

yes please

[flash_uk]

yup

[Alex Bridgeman]

Justin says "yes please" but he's blocked from accessing TPF.

[Will W.]

I'm in.

[Glenn E.]

Yes, provisionally. It is difficult to predict my international travel availability this far in advance.

[rich_n]

Yes, provisionally!

[Doggett]

Ian Johns says yes please

[Doggett]

George and Neil also are available and say yes please...

[jdaw1]

Full. What bottles of ’94 do people have available?

[winesecretary]

I have Dow, Gould Campbell, Quinta de la Rosa, Smith Woodhouse, Taylor, Vesuvio, Warre

[CPR 1]

Full. What bottles of ’94 do people have available?

Ramos Pinto - Quinta da Ervamoira, G, D, Erica Velha, Kopke

[Will W.]

Dow's
Ramos Pinto
Burmester
Ferreira
Graham's
Romaneira

Piles of the Graham's, Burmester and Romaneira. The rest are single bottles, according to my cellar list.

[jdaw1]

Justin sends that he has: Cálem, Dow, Graham, Noval, Sandeman, Tesco, Taylor.

[PhilW]

RO94, Ni94 cask sample in half bottle; W/F/V/G currently unopened in offsite but potentially possible.

[PhilW]

oh and QdlR94

[Glenn E.]

Dow
Fonseca
Graham (750, magnum)
Ramos Pinto
Taylor (in magnum only)
Quinta do Noval
Quinta do Vesuvio

I may have others, but those are the ones that come to mind immediately.

[Glenn E.]

Edited the above to add: Quinta do Noval

[akzy]

Yes please.

[hadge]

yes please

[Glenn E.]

For clarity, my Ramos Pinto is a regular VP not a Quinta da Ervamoira SQVP. I believe that they produced both in 1994, which is a bit of an oddity.

[akzy]

If I get promoted, I have Dow and Berry's.

[idj123]

Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning. Please add me to the waiting list please. Like alot of people have plenty of 94s.

[PhilW]

Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning.

It was fully subscribed within 12 minutes of even being suggested!

[CPR 1]

Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning.

It was fully subscribed within 12 minutes of even being suggested!

Ian Johns says yes please

yes but you made the cut

[idj123]

Sigh...had already retired for the evening when this opened and so was fully subscribed by the time I got going this morning.

It was fully subscribed within 12 minutes of even being suggested!

Ian Johns says yes please

yes but you made the cut

Indeed I did

[idj123]

And of those not listed at the start of the thread, I believe that I have Ck, Df and Sk.

[jdaw1]

The second post of this thread has been edited to explain the suggested maximum size, and which Ports are chosen. Comment welcomed.

Ck, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, Ni, N, Ps, QH, RP, Rs, SW, S, Sk, T, V, W.

If the RPE is added, to accompany the RP, then which should be removed?

[winesecretary]

I have never participated in a good Noval 94 (sample size small - 4 bottles over ten years - but all from different cases ). I would rather have a potentially rewarding port I have not had than another potentially disappointing Noval.

[jdaw1]

Hence: Ck, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, Sk, T, V, W.

Done.

Also, I’d prefer Kopke over Passadouro. And might also want Cálem over something, that something perhaps being Cockburn. Others?

[nac]

There's a 12bt case of the quite rare Noval 94 in the current BidForWine auction. Looks to be in excellent condition.

Any interest in a group purchase?

[idj123]

I wouln't mind a couple of these Neil and so yes, although price dependent. What are we potentially loking at in terms of the latter?

[nac]

Opening price is £800 dp inc vat. No buyer’s commission.

[idj123]

Opening price is £800 dp inc vat. No buyer’s commission.

That's not bad although definitely caveat emptor with regards to this wine, as like George, I don't think that I have had a non flawed bottle of this wine although of course someone will now point out a tasting that I have attended to the contrary!

[idj123]

Hence: Ck, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, Sk, T, V, W.

Done.

Also, I’d prefer Kopke over Passadouro. And might also want Cálem over something, that something perhaps being Cockburn. Others?

I would agree with replacing the Ck as I think that this is one of most disappointing of the 94s. I also need to update my previous bottle availability ( he says sheepishly) as whilst I do have a bottle of the Sk, I now see that it is empty as I recall drinking it earlier in lockdowm (and it was in good place)!

[winesecretary]

Oddly enough, I see that the only note on the tasting notes list for N 94 is the bottle from the 2019 horizontal of 1994s. Neil would appear to be on the money in saying 'quite rare'.

I also support the removal of Ck from the list for this tasting.

[jdaw1]

• The purported Skeffington has already been drunk (!), and has been replaced with Kopke.
• General agreement to remove pre-Symington Cockburn, it being replaced with Cálem.

Updated selection: Cá, Cr, Df, D, F, GC, G, K, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, T, V, W.

Comment? Agreement? Objections?

[jdaw1]

Neil would appear to be on the money in saying 'quite rare'.

Only 800 dozen were made — Axa had bought Noval in late 1993, hadn’t had time to do the many needed works, so decided to raise quality by aggressive selection.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Not already offered by others, I have the following:

• Martinez
• Paxton & Whitfield own label

I'd like to see the Martinez included, perhaps instead of the Passadouro?

[PhilW]

My thoughts:
- Agree with NN exclusion, given youth/cost combination.
- Very much agree to prioritise the RP-RPE for comparison
- I would also prioritise Ni-Ps to have the Passadouro alongside the Niepoort for comparison
- (consequentially disagreeing with JDAW's preference of K > Ps due to point above)
- I would include the Mz now offered from AHB
- Since that would have me including Ps and Mz, if we want the same number of wines per current proposed selection, I would suggest dropping Df and K (and/or GC/SW)

[jdaw1]

Mike: are you willing to make available printing facilities, such that trimmed A2 becomes possible, which would allow twenty-one glasses?

Or twenty-one on A2 trimmed to be 1″ = 25.4mm taller than A4, and 86.0mm ≈ 3.39″ less wide than 3×A4. (Radius ≈ 122.841pt ≈ 1.71″ ≈ 43.34mm.)

(The attempt at nineteen was never going to last. I knew it; you knew it.)

(If Mike agrees, will add Fr and Mz.)

[nac]

Mike: are you willing to make available printing facilities, such that trimmed A2 becomes possible, ...

If Mike can’t, I can.

[jdaw1]

Mike: are you willing to make available printing facilities, such that trimmed A2 becomes possible, ...

If Mike can’t, I can.

Thank you.

Original plan was nineteen; later upgraded to twenty-one.

…

• Team seemed keen on Mz; and I on Fr.

Updated selection: Cá, Cr, Df, D, Fr, F, GC, G, K, Mz, Ni, Ps, QH, RP, RPE, Rs, SW, S, T, V, W.

Comment? Agreement? Objections?

[hadge]

There's a 12bt case of the quite rare Noval 94 in the current BidForWine auction. Looks to be in excellent condition.

Any interest in a group purchase?

i would be keen on a few.