What the Portuguese drink

[uncle tom]

I spent much of my recent trip investigating the Ports that the Portuguese like to drink.

The answer, simply, is standard Tawny - indeed I suspect they drink more of this than all other types put together.

But this class of Port is hugely variable - at one end you have the Tawnies that are a blatent blend of red and white ports, and show barely a trace of the wood aging claimed on the label - Taylor's is a good example of this, as is Croft's - indeed the two were so similar, I guessed they were in fact identical, and mentioned this to the girl in the Croft lodge "the difference (she said, sweetly) " is that ours is cheaper.."

On the other extreme you have the curious offering from Calem, which initially appears to be an ancient, yet poor wine, but may be a juice that has had mosto torrado added to make it look older.

In between there are some interesting and very sound wines that don't get much exposure on the export markets. After making a few enquiries of the locals, and a little experimentation, I found myself a winner:

Quinta da Pulga - excellent colour, sound quality, and clear evidence of wood aging - delightfully smooth.

This is a high altitude Quinta that is one of the Romaneira satellites. The wine can be bought from a small store on the Gaia waterfront that lies midway between the iron bridge and the Magreb restaurant.

Price was 7.70 euros/bottle, but they gave me an extra one for buying six.

Good affordable quaffing juice!

Tom

[Axel P]

Tom,

I was very disappointed discovering the same back in Germany. We have a portugese "heimatverein", which is a place where many portugese meet on a regular basis and portugese food is served there.

The standard port there is a - you would have guessed - Cruz Tawny Port. When asking, most Portugese dont drink port, dont know much about Port and if they drink Port the main factor is always the price. Quality never matters.

I tried to compare it with Germany and beer. Maybe 0,2% of all germans, dont drink beer, dont know anything about beer and most germans always cherish beer from better quality (although if getting drunk is the main aim - quality doesnt matter as well).

Axel

[10Anos]

There's probably a very good reason why port is also known as "The Englishman's drink"...

When I asked my Portuguese colleages what they drink when they're celebrating something, the answer was simply "a good wine", which is not necessarily port.

[DRT]

Tom/Axel,

Did you get any impression that this was just a product of the Portugues economy? It is not exactly an affluent country and I would think that the general masses would be unable to buy good quality Port for daily drinking. A similar situation seems to exist in rural France or Italy where the local shops and bars will be filed with the cheapest and nastiest plonk known to man.

Perhaps it is people like us who keep port prices high which means the native population is left with what we won't buy and can't aford to keep anything that we will.

Derek

[Axel P]

Derek,

good point. The only thing what I am missing is the quality awareness. Even if many germans drink a liter-can of the cheapest beer everyday, most of them are aware that there are many private breweries with a very high quality.

Axel

[DRT]

Axel,

I think the perception of quality can't be separated from value for money, both of which are very subjective and perceived in differnet ways by each individual depending on experience and circumstance.

I am fortunate enough to be in a position to buy, drink and enjoy Fonseca 1966. 20 years ago I could not have done so without going without food and a house. I am certain that my perception of the "value" of Fonseca 1966 today is quite different to what it was then. I also think that when it was out of my financial reach, I would have struggled to appreciate its quality in the way I do now. That doesn't mean it would have tasted better or worse, just that my circumstances would have prevented me from thinking the quality gap was wide enough to justify the price.

I am quite sure that most of the people who put their feet in this stuff at harvest time this we are all mad for shelling out so much money on it.

Derek

[uncle tom]

Did you get any impression that this was just a product of the Portugues economy?

Yes, that weighs heavily - I know they invest in VP for birth years and special occasions.

However, I am convinced that the Portuguese - even those who work for the producers - have not got a clue about serving vintage port.

While in the Croft lodge, after sampling everything that was going free, I felt the need to demonstrate that I was not just a freeloader...

They were offering glasses of Roeda '78 at 5 euros a glass, so I asked to buy one. Immediately the decanter was tipped I could see that it was loaded with sediment, and the glass proffered was an opaque soup. Worse, the wine was clearly corked..

Pointing this out they were politely apologetic - the girl at the counter called over a colleague who shrugged and said "I don't like vintage anyway" So casual was the apology, I had to ask 'do you want me to pay for this' They declined, but I was not impressed..

A while back, I saw some photos of a 'wines of the century' gathering, when bottles dating back to 1900 were presented for consumption..

..none were decanted..!

Tom

[DRT]

Tom,

I too have been very surprised at the lack of decanting in the Douro. On the harvest tour in 06 the vast majority of the VP we had was on a pop n pour basis with no decanting and no airtime. The only exception I can remember was dinner at Quinta do Noval where the wines were decanted but then served immediately.

I wonder if the heat has something to do with this, in that leaving an open decanter at ambient temperature for most of the year in the Douro would make it too warm to enjoy? Or maybe it's just because they don't drink much VP?

Derek

[uncle tom]

Or maybe it's just because they don't drink much VP?

It is tempting to think that 'mother knows best', but I can't find any evidence to suggest that this applies here.

Once VP has been bottled, sold, and the money is in the bank, I doubt they give it much of a thought.

Making the best of their best product should not be a lesson we need to teach, but I suspect that is indeed the case!

Tom

[jdaw1]

FWLIW, Quinta da Pulga can be bought in Estonia from Batsland.

[Alex Bridgeman]

They were offering glasses of Roeda '78 at 5 euros a glass, so I asked to buy one. Immediately the decanter was tipped I could see that it was loaded with sediment, and the glass proffered was an opaque soup. Worse, the wine was clearly corked..

Pointing this out they were politely apologetic - the girl at the counter called over a colleague who shrugged and said "I don't like vintage anyway" So casual was the apology, I had to ask 'do you want me to pay for this' They declined, but I was not impressed..

I must admit, as a lover of vintage port, I am frequently horrified and dismayed by the stories that I hear of the way in which vintage port is treated and demonstrated to people visiting the lodges in VNdG.

I wonder how many people have visited Portugal, taken a day trip to VNdG and been put off by experiencing a cloudy, bitty corked product glass of wine and never touch port again.

These lodges should be the show pieces of the shippers. Last time I went to one of the lodges was a little over a decade ago, when Taylors opened a bottle of 1963 VP for me - and sold it to me by the glass! (And it was properly decanted by someone who knew what they were doing!)

It almost sounds to me as though the shippers need to hire Oenology students who have some interest in and knowledge of all the types of port (including pink!) and can actually show these wines at their best.

Perhaps this is worth a rant on FTLOP, where we know it will be seen by some of the relevant people from the industry.

[albuquerque]

Hi.

It's a fact that very few of us (i'm portuguese ) drink port wine, and i'll say 99% of the population doesn't know what is a "vintage" or a "lbv".
But every coffee shop will have a entry level tawny or ruby if you ask.
But most of my "non drinking" friends are amazed when i'll give them a cask sample of Vesúvio or Dow's Vintage to taste! They simple can't believe that such wines exist and they didn't have a clue about it.

The reasons behind all this are always the same, i think. First, drinking well (port or dry wine) is never cheap, by any standard. Then, at home, unfortunately, the habit of joining the family and friends at diner regularly is not a growing one, which is the ideal situation for enjoying good food and wine.

Yet, the last few years have seen a rise in people seeking for quality in wines, including port. That has to be with the boom of the wine producers that started in the mid 90s. And i think that people starting to get more interested in wine in general, always end up in port wine

This topic would be very, very long if we're to discuss it throughly...

Regards

[mosesbotbol]

Is it the same in Lisbon? I'd figure there are more locals with money in Lisbon and/or establishments that may attempt to serve vintage port in a more acceptable manner.

I am nervous enough even buying older Oporto bottled ports. The last two Taylors we opened from Oporto bottling were both baked, and had the structure to have been epics

[albuquerque]

Well, the question is not all about money (as i said in my previous post, this topic could be long...), but also about "education" and "style". There are lots of portuguese with financial capacity to drink well that won't, many times because they find the price of wine too speculative!

I am nervous enough even buying older Oporto bottled ports

Well, there is always a risk involveld in buying an old wine. I'm sure most of us have had some disappointments. Besides the wine itself, it's most important to know how was the wine kept. Many times, you could only trust the seller, or/and your own visual skills to "sense" the wine.

The last two Taylors we opened from Oporto bottling were both baked, and had the structure to have been epics

Which wines exactly were them ?

Cheers

[SushiNorth]

This is a fascinating topic, and one I hadn't considered much. Personally, I'm going to do a little research. There are two hard-core portugese restaurants (that serve their own community) here, and I'm going to have a chat with the bartender to see what they think of it all.