Wednesday October 8, 2008

[Alex Bridgeman]

Wednesday October 8 2008, The Crusting Pipe, Covent Garden, London

A Vertical of Cockburn Ports

Due to the surprising number of requests that I have had with questions on this tasting, this far in advance of the date, I have decided to start a thread with the details of the event so as to allow people to make arrangements and book a seat at the table.

There will be a limit of 12-14 people so as to ensure that tasting samples from a single bottle don’t get to be too small. 14 people means that you get the equivalent of a miniature bottle of port as your tasting sample.

Cost of attending will be a share of the costs of the event (corkage, glass hire, service - around £40 per person), the cost of food (£15-30 per person, depending on menu choice) and two bottles of Cockburn vintage ports. The two bottles will be one older bottle (defined as being from a vintage earlier than 1960) and one younger bottle (defined as being from the 1960 vintage or later). Please PM me with your proposed bottles so that I can do my best to avoid duplications. I can also help you to track bottles down if you are struggling.

Confirmed Attendees

• AHB - 1912, 1967
  ADV - 1924, 1983
  Stewart Todd â€‟ subject to confirmation
  Roy Hersh â€‟ subject to Harvest Tour commitments
  Mario Ferreira â€‟ subject to Harvest Tour commitments
  Ben Read
  DRT and Axel Probst - 1935, 1960, 1994
  Sean C - 1908, 1983
  Conky - 1963
  Christopher
  Nicos Neocleous
  Uncle Tom - 1955
  Simon Lisle - 1896, 1975

Others are welcome, please either PM me or post here to reserve one of the remaining slots. With the number of people who are "subject to", I will also run a wait list.

Waitlist

• JDAW

Confirmed vintages

• 1896
  1908
  1912
  1924
  1935
  1955
  1960
  1963
  1967
  1970 (courtesy of jdaw, despite his likely non-attendance)
  1975
  1983 x2 (to account for the poor reputation of these wines)
  1994

[Alex Bridgeman]

Summary of details updated.

[Andy Velebil]

Alex,
You read my mind, I was just thinking that a thread needed to be started. BTW, I've PM'd you with info.

[Christopher]

Hi Alex

Can you please put me donw for this as well, it looks excellent. I have never actually tried Cockburn at all! So if I am going to start might as well max it out!

many thanks

[Andy Velebil]

I'l be bringing the 1924, so put me down for that one. I'll figure out a 2nd bottle soon.

Christopher,
Great news!! See you soon

[jdaw1]

For those interested in the provenance of the 1924:

Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)
Croft—Vintage 1927: English bottled by Trover & Sons. Black foil capsules. One with remains of label and one without label. Levels into neck (2)

Cost of the three bottles = £480 + stuff = £564.60. (And one of the Croft 1927s appeared at the Croft Vertical in Boston, for which we didn’t post TNs.)

[jdaw1]

• 1970 (courtesy of jdaw, despite his likely non-attendance)

Provenance of the 1970: Bonhams, 29 Nov 2005, auction # 11919, lot 729, described as “Cockburn 1970 (17); Sandeman 1970 (2)†. I forgot to record my hammer price, but with non-delivery extras was £440, so about £23 a bottle.

A bottle from the same lot described here as “Pale red; little nose …; nicely rounded with prunes†.

[jdaw1]

My only other Cockburn (in the UK or the US) is a single bottle of 1985. Available at moderate cost if needed. But speak before Alex travels to my father’s to collect other bottles.

Edit: AHB has agreed to swap this C85 for one of his precious Vesuvios, planning that somebody might acquire it from him. That had to be agreed now as AHB’s trip to Sussex is imminent.

[Axel P]

As Germany is a third world country the only elder Cockburns I have in mind is the 55 which is most probably be possible to acquire. I ll get back soon, but any hints where to find elder trustworthy Cockburns somewhere near London would be excellent.

Axel

[Axel P]

For the newer vintages I could contribute 94, 97, 2000 or 2003 as well if wanted.

Axel

[Simon Lisle]

I'm afraid being midweek I can't confirm my attendance.Cockburn I have are 1896?,1960,63,67,70,75,97and I'm nearly sure I have 83.

[Alex Bridgeman]

For the newer vintages I could contribute 94, 97, 2000 or 2003 as well if wanted.

I'd be interested in the 1994 as I am generally a fan of the 1994 vintage but have not had a good bottle of the 1994 Cockburn.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'm afraid being midweek I can't confirm my attendance.Cockburn I have are 1896?,1960,63,67,70,75,97and I'm nearly sure I have 83.

Simon - I mentioned that I would run a wait list in case people had to drop out nearer the time because travel arrangements don't work out - would you like to go at the top of the wait list in case you find nearer the time that you can make it down to London for a mid-week event?

Alex

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'm hoping someone will bring a 1983 vintage. I have only had this twice and both times the bottles were corked. Yet with the reputation that this wine has, I would love to be able to try a good bottle.

I might even be persuaded to double up on this particular bottle given its reputation for being a "dodgy" bottling.

Alex

[Axel P]

... so the 94 it is.

Still looking out for any advice where to get elder ones in good condition.

Axel

[Andy Velebil]

I have a 1983 and can bring that along as well.

[Axel P]

Alex,

I couldnt reach Wolfgang jet, but please hold a seat for him, before all the others are gone.

I will let you know next week, being pretty sure that he will show up

Axl

[uncle tom]

Why have I been missing this thread? - dunno..

Anyway, I have plenty of the '55, and would be happy to attend, complete with bottle!

Tom

[Conky]

We surely have to persuade Simon to attend, if he'll share his 1896!

We could have Spag Boll with a 2000+ Cockburn sauce (I'm not drinking it straight, so young!) and then we can claim THREE CENTURIES of Cockburns.

Alan

[jdaw1]

A pedant—though it is unlikely that there will be any severe pedants present—might observe that 2000 was in the nineteenth century. Cockburn 2003 (much of which is being auctioned soon at Bonhams) would save the extra century.

[Conky]

A pedant—though it is unlikely that there will be any severe pedants present—might observe that 2000 was in the nineteenth century. Cockburn 2003 (much of which is being auctioned soon at Bonhams) would save the extra century.

I'm going to regret this.....

But was it not clear I put 2000+ ? As in 2000 plus something ?

Alan

[uncle tom]

Julian said:

might observe that 2000 was in the nineteenth century

Actually it was in the 20th - we are now in the 21st..

Tom

[jdaw1]

Julian said:

might observe that 2000 was in the nineteenth century

Actually it was in the 20th - we are now in the 21st..

Tom

Doh!

— Retard Pedant.

[Axel P]

Alex,

my simple german mind is confused. Could you summ it up again. Who is bringing what (and how should we balance the costs later on)?

Cheers

Axel

[Andy Velebil]

3 centuries would be fun, just for the sake of saying so. we need to convince Simon to come.

Tom,
glad you will be able to make this, i look forward to finally being able to meet you in the flesh.

[Alex Bridgeman]

With Tom's attendance, we have reached the number of 14, which is really all we can manage to squeeze out of a bottle - with 14 people round the table, each person is getting a sample the size of a miniature bottle. It's not a large sample.

I would love for Simon to be with us, as I really enjoy his company, but Simon was clear that because of the timing of the tasting, he would not yet be able to confirm his attendance. If later the timing works out for him and someone drops out (as is very likely, given how far ahead of the date we are starting to organise this) then Simon would be the first person to have put his name down on the waitlist and so would be given first option to take the spare seat.

Axel has asked me to summarise again, who is bringing what and how the costs are to be split. The first post in this thread contains a summary of the arrangements and I will (and have been) updating the post as people either post in the thread or email / PM me. The requirements to attend are:
(a) Each person to bring two bottles of Cockburn port with them. The first bottle to be from a vintage earlier than 1960 and the second bottle to be from the 1960 vintage or a later vintage. To help people remember what they have committed to bring, I will link attendees to bottles in the first post. Although I am happy to help find or store bottles, I don't have anything from Cockburn in my cellar that hasn't already been committed to the tasting.

(b) A willingness to share the costs incurred on the day. These will be paid on the day, direct to the venue. These are estimated to be in the region of £70 per person, depending on menu choice.

Feel free to post questions in this thread, and I will do my best to answer them.

Alex

[Simon Lisle]

Put me on first reserve please Alex.I can bring any of the port I have mentioned plus an unknown 1908 if desired.

[jdaw1]

Handy-dandy link to first post.

[DRT]

I have made enquiries about bottles of 1935 and 1950 and if the condition reports are Ok these will join the line-up. That makes three bottles from me but I have already entered into an adoption agreement with another attendee for the 3rd bottle.

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

Wolfgang has advised me that he will not be able to make the tasting, so we have a space free again.

Simon - if you want the seat at the table and can confirm your availability, please say so and it is yours. Otherwise you are number 1 on the waitlist.

Initial posting updated.

[DRT]

The 1935 is now confirmed in the line-up. I am still waiting on a condition report on the 1950 and some other bottles.

Derek

[Simon Lisle]

I'll confirm I can attend if someone drops out.I'll bring along if wanted Cockburns 1896 beleived and the 75.The 1896 is low level.

[DRT]

I'll confirm I can attend if someone drops out.I'll bring along if wanted Cockburns 1896 beleived and the 75.The 1896 is low level.

Simon,

Wolfgang has already dropped out so that means the place is yours now that you have confirmed your attendance.

AHB - can you please update the confirmed attendees and wines accordingly?

Thanks

Derek

[jdaw1]

Please allow a non-attendee to check that somebody has done the arithmetic.

Fourteen attendees, times two bottles per attendee, plus a bonus bottle, will be a mere twenty-nine things to taste. Obviously two-ish bottles each of volume is fine drinking (and some bottles might have low levels), but competently tasting twenty-nine different ports is a good deal more than I could manage.

Presumably you folks are international port-tasting heroes, so it won’t be a problem. Though you’ll need a lot of table space for all the glasses.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Summary of arrangements now updated here to include Simon.

JDAW's maths is correct. I suspect that we may need to either share the note taking duties or suffer the deterioration of notes that will be inevitable with so many different vintages. However, I am confident that I will be able to write something for every vintage that we try.

[jdaw1]

You’ll be needing a little more than four hundred glasses. That may require some special pleading.

And, for each person, three A4 pages of glasses. That’s a lot of table. Are you sure the Crusting Pipe will be large enough? (The 1966 horizontal had only two pages each, and no spare space on the table in the tunnel.)

[DRT]

You’ll be needing a little more than four hundred glasses. That may require some special pleading.

And, for each person, three A4 pages of glasses. That’s a lot of table. Are you sure the Crusting Pipe will be large enough? (The 1966 horizontal had only two pages each, and no spare space on the table in the tunnel.)

If the tasting reaches these proportions we might be best booking both tunnels just for the port tasting and have dinner in the main restaurant area. That shouldn't be too much of a problem for TCP on a cold wet Wednesday night in October as the tunnels normaly sit empty at quiet times of the year.

Does anyone out there have a bottle of C2003? We need one to complete the 3 Centuries line-up. Once we have that we can prioritise the gap years to ensure we end up with all the expected star vintages with any gaps being those that are coming along to make up numbers.

1927 is an obvious gap at this point but I think we have at least 2 people looking to adopt rather than supply and I can source one from the same place as the 1935s. Some PMing required. Will report back soon.

Derek
Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Having dinner at a different table would be best, if the Crusting pipe will allow us. That way we wouldn't have to move glasses around to eat, etc. I would also recommend a short break or two at some point during the tasting. As that many bottles, its good to get up and stretch. At the Boston Croft Vertical, IIRC we did about 17ish bottles. It took several hours to work our way through those the first go around, taking notes...then taking a break and coming back later. this will have another 10 or so more bottles, so at least one break 1/2 way through would probably be nice.

Then a few more hours to drink the night away and have fun with pens down

When I get home, i'll check to see if I have a 2003 bottle.

[DRT]

You’ll be needing a little more than four hundred glasses.

That is a statistic I like.

[jdaw1]

We started the Croft tasting not that long after lunchtime. It took about twelve hours. And that had fewer bottles.

[Andy Velebil]

We started the Croft tasting....It took about twelve hours. And that had fewer bottles.

A statistic that I like

We will definitely need lots of time for this one...hope the crusting pipe won't mind us taking over for a bit?

[jdaw1]

OK, enough hinting, time to speak more plainly. You (plan to) have too many bottles for a one day tasting unless you start in the morning and spit. Twenty-nine is a busy two-day tasting.

[DRT]

I don't think we will end up with that many wines. Some of the attendees have not yet confirmed attendance so I expect there to be gaps in the line-up, especially in more recent vintages. And I'm not even sure that Cockburn have released that many vintages over the period from 1896 to 2003.

Whatever happens, we will find a way to cope.

Derek

[jdaw1]

And I'm not even sure that Cockburn have released that many vintages over the period from 1896 to 2003.

My version of your list shows, ≥1900 and ≤2000, twenty-three Cockburns (1900 1904 1908 1912 1927 1931 1935 1947 1950 1955 1958 1960 1963 1967 1970 1975 1983 1985 1991 1993 1994 1997 2000) and two Cockburn Quinta dos Canais (1995 1999). Plus 1896, plus 2003.

Even twenty would be a huge tasting, requiring many glasses, much space, and at least twelve hours drinking time.

[uncle tom]

I believe the '31 was a small un-released bottling that has now been drunk to extinction - but I would love to be proved wrong!

Tom

[DRT]

Tom,

Feel free to bring along a bottle of something else from 1931 just to plug the gap

I think if we end up with 20+ vintages it will be easy enough to organise a longer tasting which starts with lunch followed by the older wines then dinner followed by the young uns.

What is "spitting"?

Derek

[uncle tom]

Feel free to bring along a bottle of something else from 1931 just to plug the gap

I've got an Offley '31 - that any good?

Tom

[DRT]

Feel free to bring along a bottle of something else from 1931 just to plug the gap

I've got an Offley '31 - that any good?

Tom

Anything from around 15km further east?

[Andy Velebil]

That many bottles is doable, but like Derek said, we would have to start around lunch or before. Drink some, have some food, drink some, more food, etc.

We do more than that on the Harvest Trip each day, so I know its doable, we just need to take some time and pace ourselves. Talk about the wines, take notes, etc. The boston tasting there was only 8 people and we had 17ish bottles, we will probably have at least 12+ people and a few more bottles. The number of bottles is no big deal, its just that the time we would need will be most of the day...which is fine by me.

[jdaw1]

too many bottles for a one day tasting unless you start in the morning and spit

What is "spitting"?

OK, you have rumbled me. I don’t know what that word means. Having heard it somewhere I thought that it ought to be tested (à la freddled gruntbuggly, if you’ll allow a slightly indirect reference). The result of the test is that the word isn’t useful.