1896 Port - Unknown: Help with digging!

[DLovedale]

Hello!

Newbie here, but have been scouring the forum recently for research help. I'm in the UK wine trade and run a company, Provinance Ltd, alongside Hugo Rose MW. However, this is an extracurricular thing, personally owned. I'm a bit of a (wine) bottle dating and deep digging geek. I own a bottle of late 19th century port, which I have happily deduced as an 1896 through torch and camera flash magic (vintage visible on wax, when not with naked eye, and the glassware is correct etc). The botte is in great shape for the age. The colour and level (again, for the age) are both sound. However, I'm not quite content to stop there; the fun and games of researching etc. I've been in touch with Richard Mayson after buying his book (a recommendation found on here, thanks), who then suggested I reach out to Julian Wiseman. I've bought Julian's encyclopaedic book and have scoured through the 1896's, merchant index etc and he's very helpfully replied to a message I sent, with useful/appreciated detail. Plenty of online digging too...

The important aspect I am looking into is info that remains on the capsule:

Alongside the vintage, the (assumed) bottler is visible as ".....& SONS".

So, I've been trying to narrow the pool of who this could be, and then try to narrow that down further to houses (a massive long shot, I know!). I've attached a few photos here, wishfully hoping someone may have some knowledge that may point me in the right direction. Excuse lowish quality photos, given I had to reduce size to fit on here. On the two photos just about honing in on & SONS - the wax is clearly degraded and very tricky to make out - what I vaguely make out is "....N? & SONS". But I think this is probably "...NG & SONS"? Are there any views on this from anyone, please? Unfortunately, if I'm correct in my view of "NG", this doesn't corroborate with the list of knowns sent to me by Julian (again, very helpfully), listed here:

Richard Hooper & Sons
Quarles Harris & Sons
Louis Gordon & Sons (owned Smith Woodhouse)
H. Parrot & Sons, in 1967 the London agents of Fonseca

Messrs. John Harvey & Sons Ltd
Harvey & Sons’
Sandeman & Sons
Basil Woodd & Sons
Thomas Baty & Sons Ltd, of Water Street Liverpool
9 June 1845 … The late Firm of Butler & Sons, Of Water Lane and Tower Hill
John Sarson & Sons, Leicester
John Lupton & Sons, Bradford
Smallwood & Sons, Birmingham
Hay & Sons, Ltd., Sheffield
Hollebone & Sons
Messrs. Rawlings & Sons (London), Ltd., London
James Powell & Sons
Messrs. John Trapp & Sons
Statfield & Sons
Messrs. R. Rowson & Sons, Warrington
J. T. Davies & Sons, Ltd

NB there appears to be some info on the cork but it's 90% hidden under lip and cap, alas...

Might (somehow) anyone have a clue about any "...NG & SONS" bottlers/merchants, if I'm correct in my assumption?

Separately, I MAY have a 1931 J&B bottled Noval for sale (personally), that I own, if anyone's looking...(I'll almost certainly be drinking this 1896 but I'd like to TRY to work out what it is first...).

A significant long shot! Thanks v much for looking! I'll certainly owe Julian a decent glass of something if I get anywhere here...

Cheers
Dan

[Glenn E.]

The 4th picture does seem to me to pretty clearly say "NG & SONS" but, alas, I cannot think of who that might be.

A picture of the cork might be useful, too, even if 90% of it is hidden.

[DLovedale]

Thanks, Glenn, appreciated.

Unfortunately, the nature of the glass - black, thick, imperfections etc, makes the cork too tricky to make out for a worthwhile shot. I've had a crack at this quite a few times. May attempt for a 100th time but not hopeful!

Cheers

[PhilW]

Great colour for an 1896. Agree with the "& SONS" on the capsule. Could be "NG" but am less certain, especially with the distortion. I have one photo with similar capsule which is a Feuerheed 1896, but definitely a different bottler, assuming the outer text never rotates relative to the inner number (i.e. the centre looks the same, but definitely different text above the 18).
FYI in case you're not already aware, while 1908+ corks are typically branded with year and shipper, I've only seen one pre-1900 cork with branding (which was the Feuerheed 1896, by chance), so there is a high chance your cork may not be branded. Worth tonging the bottle to find out though, when you decide to open it.

[DLovedale]

Phil, this is a very helpful reply, thank you. Indeed, with the cork, I didn't expect to see branding. But worth a look for clues, of course. I've just again taken the bottle up from the cellar (I need to stop moving it..), polished a little more cellar gunk off the neck and 100th time lucky getting the torch and camera in the right spots.

It is branded.

See the below. The line with a T end, that goes partially around the cork, is definitely too distinct and regular for natural markings on the cork. What to make of the mark in the other image, I have no clue...this could be natural. Other marks below the line are too indistinct to send (and most likely natural).

I don't suppose you recall the appearance or, better still, have photos of the Feuerheerd cork, perchance?

Almost less interesting now but, for info, I'm 99% convinced it's NG for the bottler - but this is looking like a wild goose (or even unicorn) chase.

You're a helpful bunch btw, thanks.

[DLovedale]

2nd image....not dissimilar to the Feuerheerd anchor!

[DLovedale]

+

[PhilW]

I don't suppose you recall the appearance or, better still, have photos of the Feuerheerd cork, perchance?

I'm afraid not, sorry.

Almost less interesting now but, for info, I'm 99% convinced it's NG for the bottler - but this is looking like a wild goose (or even unicorn) chase.

The only bottler I can think of from around then with ...NG is "W & N Starling" in 1887, but I have not seen any evidence that this ever became "& SONS". The only information I can find is:
- "W & N Starling" was a wine merchant based in Saffron Walden in mid-late 1800s
- In 1891 the partnership between William Starling and Nainby Starling was dissolved, with Nainby continuing the business alone
- In 1901 the business was still running and still called "W & N Starling" (per their advert in a local newspaper at that time).
so nothing to suggest an & SONS there I'm afraid.

I'm not as convinced as you are about whether the lines on the cork are branding or not; but I hope they are and will be interested to hear what you find when you open it - I'm hoping you have tongs?

[DLovedale]

The only bottler I can think of from around then with ...NG is "W & N Starling" in 1887, but I have not seen any evidence that this ever became "& SONS". The only information I can find is:
- "W & N Starling" was a wine merchant based in Saffron Walden in mid-late 1800s
- In 1891 the partnership between William Starling and Nainby Starling was dissolved, with Nainby continuing the business alone
- In 1901 the business was still running and still called "W & N Starling" (per their advert in a local newspaper at that time).
so nothing to suggest an & SONS there I'm afraid.

Thanks, Phil. I actually located the same info (the old newspaper announcements etc, then looked into that a little deeper) - clearly, we're on the same wavelength on the digging front (thanks for looking). And, indeed, no & Sons involved here. I've begrudgingly accepted giving up on the bottler etc hunt.

I'm not as convinced as you are about whether the lines on the cork are branding or not; but I hope they are and will be interested to hear what you find when you open it

On the branding front, I am 99.9% convinced it is branded, i.e. the very-much-unnatural parallel, very straight lines (as the start), the lower of which continues halfway+ around the cork (not shown in these photos) - this is most likely clearer to the naked eye, so let's see how it comes out/whether legible (FYI the "anchor" was more tongue in cheek than an actually suggesting btw).

I'm not a Port tong owner, unfortunately, so it's either Durand or potentially using some DIY skills to bodge a useable if clunky tong alternative (I have a vague plan). I realistically don't have enough essential use for tongs - inc old port consumption being an irregularity - to buy, and I'll put a stop to the research/accessory spends after buying Julian's (very helpful) book. One of the reasons for trying to deduce before cracking was in the eventuality of any useful info on cork being unreadable after opening...if I never know what it is, I never know! Shame, but...fun of the chase anyway.

If I do find out, I'll be sure to let you know.

Thanks again for the help, inc getting back to me re pics of your Feuerheerd.

[flash_uk]

I don't suppose you recall the appearance or, better still, have photos of the Feuerheerd cork, perchance?

I think I still have the cork, Dan. Back home tomorrow and can check then.

[Andy Velebil]

When opening, don’t use any Ah-So or Durand. They will destroy the sides and thus the possibility of identifying. Push the cork in, then after pouring contents into decanter, bag out the cork.

Some observations. Weird wax. Looks like a layer on top of another layer. And weird shape.

Given the possible branded cork, this could be a Tawny or a later bottled Ruby Port of some type. The current bottling requirements as we know them didn’t come into play until after WW2. Before that it was, largely, an open field.

[PhilW]

I'm not a Port tong owner, unfortunately, so it's either Durand or potentially using some DIY skills to bodge a useable if clunky tong alternative (I have a vague plan). I realistically don't have enough essential use for tongs - inc old port consumption being an irregularity - to buy, and I'll put a stop to the research/accessory spends after buying Julian's (very helpful) book. One of the reasons for trying to deduce before cracking was in the eventuality of any useful info on cork being unreadable after opening...if I never know what it is, I never know! Shame, but...fun of the chase anyway.

If only there was an imminent excuse for someone to buy you some tongs as a present...

ok, if you don't have tongs then the other option to keep the cork whole and undamaged would be pushing the cork into the bottle (rather than using durand/corkscrew), then smash the bottle afterwards to get the intact cork, or indeed inspect it through the glass (n.b. there are other ways to later extract the cork without breaking the bottle, search for "bagging it out" - but let's not get too distracted here). Given the level of the bottle, pushing in will likely be fairly easy. If you do decide the push the cork in, then remove the capsule first and give the top of the cork a good clean first, to minimise potential contamination; I would potentially even remove a very thin layer from the top of the cork with a pen-knife depending on condition, but I'm paranoid and not a great fan of pushing in corks except in extremis.

[DLovedale]

If only there was an imminent excuse for someone to buy you some tongs as a present...

Some people would like to own port tongs/see as a necessity, others may not/not have enough use for them. However, as noted, I have an alternative plan...

[jdaw1]

I'm not a Port tong owner, unfortunately, so it's either Durand or potentially using some DIY skills to bodge a useable if clunky tong alternative (I have a vague plan). I realistically don't have enough essential use for tongs - inc old port consumption being an irregularity - to buy, and I'll put a stop to the research/accessory spends after buying Julian's (very helpful) book.

Where are you based? If in London I might be able to lend you tongs.

[DLovedale]

Julian, you're a good man. Unfortunately, I'm based in the soggy Northwest (Manchester). But the offer is nonetheless appreciated. The heathen that I am (in this instance...), I've easily fashioned the make-do which 99% will do the job successfully. I'll let you know the results.

[flash_uk]

Pictures of the cork of the 1896 Feuerheerd are now here in the thread relating to that bottle.

[DLovedale]

Much obliged

[DLovedale]

Everyone who chipped in here, thanks again. Alas, contents and cork news delayed. The crowd, plus quantity and quality consumed/provided wasn't quite right over Christmas to up the generosity to this (an uninspiring 85 Fonseca opened instead). Likewise, the mock-up tongs not yet given a test run (Taylor's 35 half'll make use of them though, over the next few days).

When the '96 is opened, most likely for a trade lunch/dinner, comments incoming...

Cheers

[DLovedale]

The DIY tongs if anyone doubted...

[jdaw1]

(an uninspiring 85 Fonseca opened instead)

F85 might be the Port for which a long decant is most important: Audouze -style I remove the cork 36 hours before, and decant 24 hours before.

Was yours long-decanted?

I’ve had two fabulous F85s this season.

[DLovedale]

Thanks Julian.

I'm well tuned into decanting etc. The day job..(and plentiful experience). Uninspiring was more due to a flatness (versus closed) that I'll assume was a touch of TCA that didn't fully rear its head. I.e. this bottle rather than F85 as a whole.

[Glenn E.]

F85 is in a frustrating place right now, it seems. A very long decant does help, though be prepared to re-cork after opening if it seems to be one of the bottles that's still showing quite young. Those bottles seem to need somewhere between 8 and 12 hours of decant, but can handle 24 if that's what your schedule allows.

The more mature bottles will show pretty uninspired and flat without a good 12 hours, and as Julian said 24 helps quite a bit. It does seem odd to me that the "older" bottles need more decant than then "younger" ones, but Port moves in mysterious ways sometimes.

[jdaw1]

F85 is in a frustrating place right now, it seems.

I realise that we have veered away from the original topic, but I so disagree that it must be answered. Fonseca 1985, cool-English-stored, is unambiguously wonderful right now. Maybe one in twenty is corked, but except those, just delicious, especially with 24 hours in the decanter (I decant and then stopper decanter, keeping it in the cellar until drink o’clock).