Wednesday October 8, 2008

[Alex Bridgeman]

Folks,

Given the number of requests that Derek and I have had for help in sourcing bottles, please could you pause in your own attempts to find bottles for the Cockburn tasting.

Anyone who has bottles of Cockburn - from any vintage - which do not already appear on the summary list, please send me a PM and let me know what you have and for how much you would be prepared to sell them to us for use in the tasting. You can see the current list of vintages that we have already acquired or which are being brought by attendees here

I am also very aware that this is turning into a much larger tasting than was perhaps originally planned. We currently have one tunnel and the dining area behind the bar booked for us from 6pm. The intention was for the tunnel to be laid out for the tasting and for the preparations and meal to be taken in the dining area behind the bar. However, with this much notice, it would be very easy to extend the reservation to start when the Crusting Pipe opens at 11:30 and for the tasting to start at, say 1pm to give us 1½ hours to decant and pour the tasting samples.

My recollection of the Croft tasting in Boston was that we ran through all 12 ports in one sitting, starting at around 2pm, and then broke for dinner at about 6pm before revisiting the ports and finishing them off over the 5 hour period from 8pm to 1am.

The Crusting Pipe has the advantage that food is available on hand within kitchen hours, but there is likely to be slightly less time available than there was in Boston - but more people to sip the ports.

Derek and I will be discussing formats for the tasting (flights, breaks, glasses etc) once we are closer to the date and can have a clearer idea of the confirmed line-up. In the meantime, if a 1pm start would cause you a problem, please would you let me know as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Alex

[Andy Velebil]

1pm start is good for me

[Axel P]

I will arrive at 1440 at Stansted and probably need 1:30 at least from there. So I will join later, but no problem as long as my port is still there and no one of you nasty guys spit in it.

Axel

[DRT]

I can foresee difficulties arising for Christopher here. We have already persuaded him to leave the sanctuary of London and cross the M25 into Never-never Land on a school night in May. The impact of this on the world economy is as yet unknown.

Now we are asking him to attend a Port tasting during the working day. This could cause more panic in The City than they day someone at Northern Rock said "do you think the Bank of England would give us a loan?"

[Alex Bridgeman]

Unfortunately, the 1950 vintage that DRT and AP had been promised by a retailer is no longer available. Fortunately, it has a reputation as probably being the weakest of the vintages that we were expecting to taste. The current list of vintages here has been updated. Efforts continue to add further vintages to the line up.

I'm impressed with Axel's confidence that he will be able to catch up with the tasting after arriving 3½ hours after we start. I'm also aware that a 1pm start may be difficult for Christopher.

However, at the moment we have 13 vintages and that would not be too many for a 4 hour tasting starting from 7pm when shared between 14 people.

The logistics can become a little more definite (or definate for DRT) once the ports are a little clearer.

Alex

[Simon Lisle]

I have found a bottle of 1947 from a merchant £185 if anyone is interested or we could all chip in.

[Axel P]

I could bring a 1997, 2000 and a 2003 as well.

Axel

[DRT]

I have found a bottle of 1947 from a merchant £185 if anyone is interested or we could all chip in.

Simon,

I have money from a few people who have not been able to supply bottles. Can you please send me details of the merchant or buy it and I will send you the money. Please ask for a condition report and photo of the bottle before parting with the cash

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

I could bring a 1997, 2000 and a 2003 as well.

Axel

i checked my cellar and I have no 2000/2003 cockburns. So if hard working organizers, AHB and Derek, also agree then I say bring at least the 2000 and 2003 so we can complete the 3-centuries of Port.

[DRT]

Axel,

I think I already emailed you on this but could you please bring the 2003 and we can use some of the money we have collected to pay you for it.

Thanks.

Derek

[SushiNorth]

I could bring a 1997, 2000 and a 2003 as well.

Axel

i checked my cellar and I have no 2000/2003 cockburns. So if hard working organizers, AHB and Derek, also agree then I say bring at least the 2000 and 2003 so we can complete the 3-centuries of Port.

I just saw some 2000 Cockburn around for a reasonable price, i'll check the usual haunts to see where. I've got one 94 in my basement, but I'd be sad to part with it unless I knew it could replaced.

(and no, despite Conky's generous suggestion, this reply isn't an indication I intend to cross the puddle for the tasting. You've got a full house as it is! I only wanted to provide a hand sourcing )

[DRT]

(and no, despite Conky's generous suggestion, this reply isn't an indication I intend to cross the puddle for the tasting. You've got a full house as it is! I only wanted to provide a hand sourcing )

SN,

Thanks for the offer but I fear logistics would become an issue. Julian can describe the pain of carrying single bottles across the pond/puddle better than I. I think we already have offeres of all the vinatges you mention from closer to home.

Thanks again.

Derek

[Axel P]

ADV, Miguel Corte Real just emailed me, that Cockburn did not declare a 1924 VP. Could you please check the bottle again?

Miguel will participate in the tasting, too. What a great surprise and an honor!

Axel

[DRT]

Miguel will participate in the tasting, too. What a great surprise and an honor!

Fantastic!!

If everyone attends this will make it a tight fit around the table and slightly smaller tasting samples but, IMO, it is well worth those sacrafices to have Miguel as a guest.

Derek

PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.

[jdaw1]

PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.

For those interested in the provenance of the 1924:

Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)

And I don’t have it either — it is at my father’s, and he isn’t sufficiently technically savvy to be able to upload a picture. Possibilities:

• It’s a private non-declared bottling of Cockburn 1924.
• It’s Fonseca 1924.
• It’s a different 1924.
• It’s Fonseca 1927.
• It’s something else.

What do you want to do? Andy: send you a cheque/check for your money back?

[Conky]

Again, not being up on such things, did everyone else know that Miguel Corte-Real is Cockburn's Viticultural & Commercial Director, so any comments he may choose to divulge about Cockburn's has got to be worth a listen.

Thank goodness for Google.

[Conky]

PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.

For those interested in the provenance of the 1924:

Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)

And I don’t have it either — it is at my father’s, and he isn’t sufficiently technically savvy to be able to upload a picture. Possibilities:

• It’s a private non-declared bottling of Cockburn 1924.
• It’s Fonseca 1924.
• It’s a different 1924.
• It’s Fonseca 1927.
• It’s something else.

What do you want to do? Andy: send you a cheque/check for your money back?

My vote would have to be to keep it in. If, as is unlikely, it is a C24, that would be amazing, but even if it wasn't, it is an intriguing anomaly that will entertain all attending.

[DRT]

PS: I think ADV was buying the bottle from Sean C or Jdaw so he may not actually have it yet.

For those interested in the provenance of the 1924:

Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)

And I don’t have it either — it is at my father’s, and he isn’t sufficiently technically savvy to be able to upload a picture. Possibilities:

• It’s a private non-declared bottling of Cockburn 1924.
• It’s Fonseca 1924.
• It’s a different 1924.
• It’s Fonseca 1927.
• It’s something else.

What do you want to do? Andy: send you a cheque/check for your money back?

can I suggest that it is taken to AHBs house so that we can examine the bottle on 20 may and then decide what to do with it? Subject of course to ADV wanting his money back now

[Andy Velebil]

Lets just wait and see what it is. Most likely I will keep it anyways and either open it as a surprise (if we can't figure out what it is ahead of time) or open it later, and/or find another bottle. We got some time, so I'll wait till AHB examines it later this month.

[DRT]

Most likely I will keep it anyways and either open it as a surprise (if we can't figure out what it is ahead of time) or open it later, and/or find another bottle.

So we will open it at the Crusting Pipe on 8th October or The Bell on 9th October. Cool.

[Andy Velebil]

Most likely I will keep it anyways and either open it as a surprise (if we can't figure out what it is ahead of time) or open it later, and/or find another bottle.

So we will open it at the Crusting Pipe on 8th October or The Bell on 9th October. Cool.

Yes Sir

[jdaw1]

The Cockburn? 1924: father has visited the cellar on behalf of the team. He reports as follows. No label on bottle of Cockburn? 1924. Centre of capsule says “1924†. Bottom of capsule says “Oporto†. At the top of the capsule the first letter is what looks like a “C†, the rest of the word being missing, and the C being in a smaller typeface than the “Oporto†. Position of the C suggests that the C word is longer than “Croft† (that being the only C?-house that Derek’s list says declared ’24), and consistent with it being “Cockburn†. A torch failed to reveal whatever secrets the cork might hold.

Uploading a picture into email lies outside the specification of this model of vintage-1935 Papa.

What next? Andy: still want to keep it? Others: is it allowed or forbidden.

[Andy Velebil]

Yes I'll still keep it. I say we open at the offline and see what it is...unless Alex's post 1935 eyes are a tad better and he can make out what it is.

The only other "C" I can think of is Constantinos...which is actually Crasto (they sold the grapes to Constantinos).

[DRT]

Yes I'll still keep it. I say we open at the offline and see what it is...unless Alex's post 1935 eyes are a tad better and he can make out what it is.

The only other "C" I can think of is Constantinos...which is actually Crasto (they sold the grapes to Constantinos).

I have no problem with ADV chosing to open this bottle on 8th October, but, given that:

1. Cockburn's Viticultural & Commercial Director has said that Cockburn did not produce a VP in 1924
2. Jdaw's Father has confirmed this is a 1924
3. we are likely to have around 28 bottles of Cockburn VP to taste
4. Jdaw's Father said 'the C being in a smaller typeface than the “Oporto†'
5. Fonseca 1924 contains a lower case c

...I start to wonder whether or not it would be a bit of a waste to have a "surprise" bottle of this age at this event?

Derek

[Conky]

I'd love it to be opened on that night. Great Cockburn's and a mystery that just might be(But probably isn't) a real gem. If it transpires it is Fonseca, wont that be an interesting comparison?

Anyway, Andy decides.

[DRT]

If it transpires it is Fonseca, wont that be an interesting comparison?

I don't think it would, really, as there wouldn't be a Cockburn from that vintage to compare it to.

If it is a Fonseca, or a Croft, or a Constantino, or a Delaforce, or a Calem, or a C da Silva or even a Noval Nacional - it will still just be the odd man out in a line-up of 28 Cockburn VPs.

Personally, I think it deserves more of a Leading or Supporting Actor role in a line-up where it fits rather than being one of the Extras

...but, as you say...

Andy decides.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Fonseca 1924 contains a lower case c

Too late to check now, but I think he said that the missing letters were all to the right of the C.

[DRT]

Fonseca 1924 contains a lower case c

Too late to check now, but I think he said that the missing letters were all to the right of the C.

Is it too late to have it collected by AHB along with the stuff he is collecting for consumption or distribution on 20th May?

If not, perhaps Tom could bring along his super-bright torch to allow us to see whether or not the cork reveals anything that cannot be seen by your Father?

If nothing else it would give us all something to argue about on the night

[jdaw1]

AHB collecting on Friday. Decision no later than Thursday please. That’s tomorrow.

[jdaw1]

or even a Noval Nacional

For more than one reason I am confident that it isn’t a Nacional 1924.

[DRT]

or even a Noval Nacional

For more than one reason I am confident that it isn’t a Nacional 1924.

Me too - just thought I would throw it in

[DRT]

AHB collecting on Friday. Decision no later than Thursday please. That’s tomorrow.

I would vote yes as lots of us can assess it on 20 May and whatever happens AHB and ADV will meet in October for a handover.

But it isn't up to me cos I don't own it and I'm not collecting it.

Derek

[uncle tom]

A Nacional '24 would face a small credibility problem..

..I believe the Nacional vineyard was planted in 1925!

Tom

[DRT]

A Nacional '24 would face a small credibility problem..

..I believe the Nacional vineyard was planted in 1925!

Tom

See 3 posts up

[Alex Bridgeman]

I am assuming and planning to collect the "believed Cockburn 1924" tomorrow.

We will inspect it closely on Tuesday 20th and will report back our findings. If it tastes particularly good, then we will send Andy his money back.

Perhaps it is "Cockburn's Crusted Port, bottled 1924"

[Andy Velebil]

Just save me a 50cl of it, thats all i ask

Alex if you'll email me when you get it...thanks

[Alex Bridgeman]

The 1924 Unknown Shipper was collected yesterday. Close inspection this morning confirms all that Julian reported. From the seal, this is clearly a 1924 vintage port. Also clearly from a shipper whose name began with the letter "C" and was fairly long. Even a charcoal rubbing of the seal remnants did not reveal any additional information. Any branding on the cork is hidden by the wax seal around the neck of the bottle. I have one or two more tricks to try that won't damage the wax, but if I had to make a guess now then I would say that despite the fact that we know Cockburn did not ship in 1924, I would otherwise believe that this could well be a Cockburn.

Alex

[jdaw1]

Even a charcoal rubbing of the seal remnants did not reveal any additional information.

Please, next time you do a “charcoal rubbing of the seal remnants† have the missus take a video and post on YouTube, linking from here.

[Andy Velebil]

Well seems like this will be the great unknown at the day of the offline.....I can't wait.

[DRT]

Cockburn 1927 has now been added to the line-up using funds donated by Ben and Christopher.

Thanks guys

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Very cool..thanks guys.

As for the mysterious Port...I think I mentioned the only other long-named "C" brand back then that I know of was Constantinos (which the grapes were from Quinta do Crasto). So I would guess it was one of the two...but we'll find out in a few months.

[benread]

Cockburn 1927 has now been added to the line-up using funds donated by Ben and Christopher.

Thanks guys

Derek

Derek just needs to resist temptation now for the next 4 months!

[DRT]

Cockburn 1927 has now been added to the line-up using funds donated by Ben and Christopher.

Thanks guys

Derek

Derek just needs to resist temptation now for the next 4 months!

That's why I am leaving the bottles with the wine merchant until September

[Axel P]

Alex,

could you please update the lineup and start a poll which of the missing VPs we should try to get. I would ask Miguel if he would be willing to sell us some if I know wich one to ask for.

Miguel already offered to bring the (never declared) 77, 97, 2000, 2003 and a cask sample of the 2007.

Axel

P.S.: Semifinal, ohohoh, Semifinal!

[DRT]

Having attempted to unravel the spaghetti above I think the current state of play is as follows:

• Confirmed Line-up:
  • 2007 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 2003 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 2000 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 1997 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 1994 : Axel P.
  • 1991 : Uncle Tom
  • 1985 : Purchased with cash contributions
  • 1983 : ADV & Sean C (2 bottles)
  • 1977 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 1975 : Simon Lisle
  • 1970 : JDAW
  • 1967 : AHB
  • 1963 : Conky
  • 1960 : DRT
  • 1955 : Uncle Tom
  • 1935 : Purchased with cash contributions
  • 1927 : Purchased with cash contributions
  • 1924 : ADV
  • 1912 : AHB
  • 1908 : Sean C.
  • 1896 : Simon Lisle

• Cash contributions gratefully received from:
  • Axel P.
  • Ben Read
  • Christopher
  • DRT
  • Stewart Todd

• Known gaps in line-up:
  • 1958 (I think?)
  • 1950
  • 1947
  • 1931 (produced but not released)
  • 1904
  • 1900
  • 1895
  • older ones* that I haven't researched

Does anyone disagree?

Derek

* Apostrophe crime** corrected
** Link to Apostrophe crime inserted following PM from Apostrophe Sheriff

[uncle tom]

Have you already bought the '85?

I have a few if not.

Tom

[DRT]

Have you already bought the '85?

I have a few if not.

Tom

AHB has one and I had planned on buying that but if you have "a few" then AHB might be happier if I have one of yours.

Can you PM a price, please?

Thanks

Derek

[jdaw1]

Have you already bought the '85?

I have a few if not.

Tom

AHB has one and I had planned on buying that but if you have "a few" then AHB might be happier if I have one of yours.

Can you PM a price, please?

Thanks

Derek

AHB already has the C85 that was formerly mine, in return for a Vesuvio. My understanding is that he acquired it for drinking at this tasting.

[DRT]

Have you already bought the '85?

I have a few if not.

Tom

AHB has one and I had planned on buying that but if you have "a few" then AHB might be happier if I have one of yours.

Can you PM a price, please?

Thanks

Derek

AHB already has the C85 that was formerly mine, in return for a Vesuvio. My understanding is that he acquired it for drinking at this tasting.

Thanks for the info. I will check with AHB and report back. Either way, 1985 is confirmed in the line-up.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Having attempted to unravel the spaghetti above I think the current state of play is as follows:

• Confirmed Line-up:
  • 2007 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 2003 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 2000 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 1997 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 1994 : Axel P.
  • 1991 : Uncle Tom
  • 1985 : Purchased with cash contributions
  • 1983 : ADV & Sean C (2 bottles)
  • 1977 : Miguel Corte-Real
  • 1975 : Simon Lisle
  • 1970 : JDAW
  • 1967 : AHB
  • 1963 : Conky
  • 1960 : DRT
  • 1955 : Uncle Tom
  • 1935 : Purchased with cash contributions
  • 1927 : Purchased with cash contributions
  • 1924 : ADV
  • 1912 : AHB
  • 1908 : Sean C.
  • 1896 : Simon Lisle

Twenty-one ports — that’s a stupidly huge lineup for a single session. Surely this has to be split.