Wednesday October 8, 2008

Post by **jdaw1** » 00:30 Tue 29 Jul 2008

The Silent and The Sociable

Opinions differ on tasting. Some people like to do it in strict silence, so that their thoughts are not influenced by the words of others. This is reasonable. Others, very much including myself, perhaps because of non-professionalism, or perhaps because of non-impressionability, enjoy the social interaction, and benefit from endeavouring (and often failing) to find that which other say they find. This is also reasonable.

Hence it might be good to ensure that, in so far as possible, the silent and the sociable are separated. Bagsy me with the sociable. Others with a strong preference should express it here so that those devising the seating plan† can endeavour to be as helpful as possible.

† Alas boy-girl-boy-girl will not be happening.

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 02:35 Tue 29 Jul 2008

Julian, with this many people there will be no stopping the talking. This is a sociable event as much as anything else. I can ignore anything for a couple of minutes when I need to write a TN. Quit over analyzing everything

BTW, how do you know there won't be any girls...may just find some and bring them along

Post by **jdaw1** » 05:17 Tue 29 Jul 2008

• Sociable: JDAW, ADV.
• Silent: —;
• Undeclared: the rest.

Andy V wrote:BTW, how do you know there won't be any girls...may just find some and bring them along

Boy-girl-boy-girl requires as many girls as boys. More than none is possible; as many girls as boys seems a mite optimistic.

Andy V wrote:Quit over analyzing everything

If you are saying that we shouldn’t be obsessive, you are very much in the wrong place.

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 21:02 Tue 29 Jul 2008

NEWSFLASH

The 1896 Cockburn was slightly misidentified and is now known to be an 1895 Cockburn.

If anyone knows the location of an 1896 Cockburn, please speak out.

Post by **jdaw1** » 18:07 Wed 30 Jul 2008

Wine-Searcher and its professional version both deny knowledge of Cockburn 1896.

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 18:54 Wed 30 Jul 2008

According to my database, Cockburn declared three times in the 1890's -

1890, 1894 & 1896

I have no previous record of an 1895.

Tom

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 21:02 Wed 30 Jul 2008

Is there any chance of a picture or two of the Cockburn 1895 for us to take a peek at?

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 21:28 Wed 30 Jul 2008

Seems weird to have back to back vintages. He sure its not an 1896?

Also, we need to update the first thread with what bottles the other attendee's are bringing.

Simon Lisle · Post by **Simon Lisle** » 14:38 Thu 31 Jul 2008

I'll try and post some tonight as I'm off to France tomorrow.

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 09:32 Sat 02 Aug 2008

Out of interest, here are a couple of pictures of the 1924 "Cockburn" that will be making an appearance on October 8. If anyone can help to identify these, please do.

Post by **DRT** » 23:32 Tue 05 Aug 2008

jdaw1 wrote:The Silent and The Sociable

Can I assume that all you are suggesting here is sitting AHB in a corner on his own where he can write the equivalent of a short novel on the 25+ wines?

If so, I vote no. He should be made to sit with the rest of the gang so that we can distract him and make fun of him for being 5 or 6 wines behind everyone else. It's traditional to do so at

tastings.

Post by **jdaw1** » 01:08 Wed 06 Aug 2008

DRT wrote:Can I assume that all you are suggesting here is sitting AHB in a corner on his own

No. RAH is fiercely silent, whereas AHB is placidly silent.

Post by **DRT** » 01:11 Wed 06 Aug 2008

jdaw1 wrote:
DRT wrote:Can I assume that all you are suggesting here is sitting AHB in a corner on his own
RAH is fiercely silent

Even more reason to make him endure the chattering classes

Post by **DRT** » 18:59 Sat 09 Aug 2008

Due to it being a special birthday for her on 7th October my girlfriend, Jo Marshall (JCM), has decided to join me on my trip to London and will be my non-participating partner at the tasting. Proably not all of it, just the part that happens after the shoe shops in London close.

I have explained the following to Jo and she has agreed to comply by attending the event without the benefit of her daily squirt of Channel.

The [url=http://www.theportforum.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1687]TPF Offline Guide[/url] wrote: Q: Dress code?
Typically there is no dress code, unless the restaurant (or home owner) should impose one. Well, almost no dress code. Please, no perfume. Please, no aftershave. Even a small splash would be noticed by your neighbour. And if you are the neighbour of a perfume-wearing fool, grumble sufficiently loudly that the fool is shamed into not doing it again.

Jo asked me to let everyone know that this will be the first time in 8 years she will have left home in such an unperfumed state.

Could all attendees please ensure that they also comply with this code and be brave enough to secure compliance by any female companion you may be bringing along.

Thanks
Derek

benread · Post by **benread** » 23:40 Sat 09 Aug 2008

DRT wrote:Due to it being a special birthday for her on 7th October my girlfriend, Jo Marshall (JCM), has decided to join me on my trip to London and will be my non-participating partner at the tasting. Proably not all of it, just the part that happens after the shoe shops in London close.

Is her role to carry you home after drinking more port than your body can cope with?! I think we all need lots of practice before 8th October!

Post by **DRT** » 23:44 Sat 09 Aug 2008

jdaw1 wrote:Ahhh! Maybe he was. Nicely cryptically similar to those of his initials that he usually uses.

In which case we have:
• Righties: JDAW, BMHR, AHB, ADV, THRA, SL, SLT+sip sharer, RAH, SRC;
• Lefties: —;
• Undeclared: DRT, MC-R, AP, CG, NN.

Righty

Post by **DRT** » 23:46 Sat 09 Aug 2008

benread wrote: Is her role to carry you home after drinking more port than your body can cope with?!

NO. We will need someone to wash the glasses in between flights

...please don't tell her I said that - she'll kill me

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 01:09 Sun 10 Aug 2008

DRT wrote:
benread wrote: Is her role to carry you home after drinking more port than your body can cope with?!
NO. We will need someone to wash the glasses in between flights

...please don't tell her I said that - she'll kill me

I think that just cost you another couple of pairs of shoes

Axel P · Post by **Axel P** » 16:16 Sun 17 Aug 2008

Alex,

since it has been some time, could you - as the official organisation-head of the tasting - summ up all the details please again:

Where, when, which flights, who brings what etc.

As I will arrive in Stansted at 0900 I would be very happy to help organising or decanting or to do whatever if needed.

Obrigado

Axel

Post by **jdaw1** » 16:29 Sun 17 Aug 2008

According to my records:

[Updated on Mon 18 Aug after email from DRT.]
Cockburn Vertical at The Crusting Pipe, Covent Garden, London WC2E 8RD on Wednesday 8th October 2008

Evening session:
- 1895 (SL, in possession of SL);
- 1908 (SRC, in Boston);
- 1912 (AHB, in possession of AHB);
- 1924 (ADV, in possession of AHB);
- 1927 (CG+BR, at Wylie Fine Wines in Devon);
- 1935 (DRT+AP, at Wylie Fine Wines in Devon);
- 1955 (THRA, stored at home of MRZ);
- 1960 (DRT, stored at home of MRZ);
- 1963 (DRT+AP, stored at home of MRZ);
- 1967 (AHB, in possession of AHB);
- 1970 (JDAW, in possession of AHB);
Afternoon session:
- 1975 (SL, in possession of SL);
- 1977 (MC-R, in possession of MC-R);
- 1983a (ADV, in possession of AHB);
- 1983s (SRC, in Boston);
- 1985 (JDAW, stored at home of MRZ);
- 1991 (THRA, stored at home of MRZ);
- 1994 (AP, in possession of AP);
- 1997 (???, stored at home of MRZ);
- 2000 (MC-R, in possession of MC-R);
- 2003 (MC-R, in possession of MC-R);
- 2007 (MC-R, in possession of MC-R).

We need to agree start times. Perhaps 14:30 punctual and 19:00 punctual?

Post by **DRT** » 18:59 Sun 17 Aug 2008

The start times sound sensible to me.

Some of the bottle locations noted above are incorrect. I will update these in a few days as some bottles are about to move.

Derek

Post by **jdaw1** » 00:46 Mon 18 Aug 2008

Please just edit my post, putting your edits in green.

For the purpose of the event, “punctual† means that after the appointed time we will not wait for late-comers. Of course we might have to wait for decanting and pouring, but non-arrival of expected people will stay neither our tasting nor our drinking.

Axel P · Post by **Axel P** » 18:24 Mon 18 Aug 2008

Outstanding, gents,

now my simple german mind is all set to go for the big event.

Dankeschön!

Axel

Axel P · Post by **Axel P** » 14:27 Sat 30 Aug 2008

Julian, Derek, Alex, Tom:

did we or at least one of you think about putting flights together and the sequence of drinking or are you planning to place them altogether on the table?

Axel

Post by **jdaw1** » 16:34 Sat 30 Aug 2008

Axel P wrote:did we or at least one of you think about putting flights together and the sequence of drinking or are you planning to place them altogether on the table?

Yes. Afternoon is 1975 to 2007. Evening is 189? to 1970. Within those, we haven’t split it. People will probably tackle them in date order. Certainly DRT and I taste at a similar pace, so — with his permission — I was going to sit near him and discuss things quietly as we proceed in date order.

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 22:37 Sat 30 Aug 2008

Experience indicates that because people like to taste at different paces, it is better to place all wines for the session on the tasting mats and then to allow people to taste their wines as they wish.

Similar to the way in which Linden organised the Noval / Nacional tasting.

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 23:54 Sat 30 Aug 2008

I do notice that several people listed as coming have not confirmed bottles yet. Is that the case or cash contributions or something else? If so we need to figure that out ASAP.

Post by **jdaw1** » 01:01 Sun 31 Aug 2008

Some, including me, have sent £££ to DRT. He will ensure that things are fair — though I know not the details.

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 21:34 Sun 31 Aug 2008

jdaw1 wrote:Some, including me, have sent £££ to DRT. He will ensure that things are fair — though I know not the details.

I was just looking over the original #1 post and there was a number of names with blanks after them. Just wanted to get everything rapped as we are getting close and now is the time to make sure all is finalized.

Post by **jdaw1** » 00:09 Mon 01 Sep 2008

On the subject of the alleged 1895.

George Saintsbury, in Notes on a Cellar Book, wrote:… to see the ’90’s catching up and beating the (as it seemed to me) always over-rated ’87’s : or to pit against each other two such vintages as ’96 and ’97 from the same shippers—these were intellectual as well as merely sensuous exercises, and pleasing as both.

No mention there of the 1895.

George Saintsbury, a few pages later, wrote:I subjoin a list of the ports in my cellar at different or the same times. …

Cockburn
1851
—81
—84
—90
—96
1900
…

From his lists Saintsbury never owned a ’95 from any shipper, whether or not Cockburn. Of course, absence of evidence is not incontrovertible evidence of absence, but is nonetheless suggestive.

Simon: please post, or email me, pictures of that which has caused you to believe your bottle to be 1895. People will be interested.

Post by **DRT** » 17:44 Mon 01 Sep 2008

Andy V wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:Some, including me, have sent £££ to DRT. He will ensure that things are fair — though I know not the details.
I was just looking over the original #1 post and there was a number of names with blanks after them. Just wanted to get everything rapped as we are getting close and now is the time to make sure all is finalized.

All cash contributions are now in and we are making a final attempt at sourcing a small number of older vintages. I believe we already have every known vintage from 1955 onwards. Any money that we cannot spend on additional bottles (because we can't find them) will be used to pay for the food, glass hire etc on the day.

Derek

Post by **DRT** » 00:27 Wed 10 Sep 2008

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=10]JDAW[/url] tells us [url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1993]here[/url] that [b]Vintagewise[/b] [b][i]A Postscript to Saintsbury’s[/i] Notes On A Cellar Book[/b] by [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andre_Simon_(wine_critic)]André L. Simon[/url] [color=#666666][url=http://www.iwfs.com/secretariat/working_with_andre.htm]picture with the young Hugh Johnson[/url][/color], published by Michael Joseph Ltd of 26 Bloomsbury Street, London W.C.1 [color=#666666][now part of [url=http://www.penguin.com/]Penguin[/url]][/color] First published October 1945 … Fifth (Revised) Impression 1950 wrote:
The only wine of outstanding vintage character and merit of this decade was that of 1927, and, incidentally, was the only vintage offered during those ten years by Messrs. Cockburn

This seems to confirm that ADVs 1924 is not a Cockburn.

...but, as agreed earlier in this thread, we will just drink it anyway

Post by **jdaw1** » 01:48 Wed 10 Sep 2008

Cockburn also didn’t declare 1977, but that won’t stop us drinking one. Some wondered whether 1924 was similar.

Post by **DRT** » 02:41 Wed 10 Sep 2008

Quite possibly. But could also be a bottle of something unknown bottled by the wine merchant Cockburn's of Leith in Edinburgh, as could the 1895. Credit is given to AHB for this theory

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 03:19 Wed 10 Sep 2008

We shall find out in due time...we need some Tongs to take off the head and retreive the cork in one undamaged piece to try and find out what the branding says

SEAN C. · Post by **SEAN C.** » 04:05 Wed 10 Sep 2008

Is the 1924 not Cockburn as well the 1895? Is the lineup still the same?..and what was the story on the 1977?

Here's a picture of the 1908 I'm bringing:

Post by **jdaw1** » 12:25 Wed 10 Sep 2008

SEAN C. wrote:Is the 1924 not Cockburn as well the 1895? Is the lineup still the same?..and what was the story on the 1977?

Translation: Sean hasn’t been following this thread, and, rather than read it himself, wants a summary. (Go on: tell me I’m wrong.)

Cockburn did not declare 1977. There was a ‘family bottling’, obviously of many fewer pipes. We have a bottle, from Cockburn themselves, of the 1977. Hurray!

1924 came from Christies, London, 7th June 2007, lot 306 (you’ve also tasted a Croft 1927 from the same lot).

Christies, London, 7th June 2007, lot 306 wrote:Believed Cockburn—Vintage 1924: Remains of embossed wax capsule. No label. Level into neck (1)

[url=http://www.theportforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=17105#p17105]Here[/url] AHB wrote:Out of interest, here are a couple of pictures of the 1924 "Cockburn" that will be making an appearance on October 8. If anyone can help to identify these, please do.

Could be a family-bottling Cockburn 1924. But it also could be something else.

The 189?: Simon Lisle has been asked a few times for a picture, but he also isn’t following the thread. I don’t know how best to nudge him into action.

Axel P · Post by **Axel P** » 21:06 Wed 10 Sep 2008

... there might be a 1947 inbound. Will let you know if it is confirmed...

Axel

SEAN C. · Post by **SEAN C.** » 06:16 Thu 11 Sep 2008

jdaw1 wrote:
SEAN C. wrote:Is the 1924 not Cockburn as well the 1895? Is the lineup still the same?..and what was the story on the 1977?
Translation: Sean hasn’t been following this thread, and, rather than read it himself, wants a summary. (Go on: tell me I’m wrong.)

You my friend are 100% correct!

Thanks for the summary!! Are you going Julian?

Post by **jdaw1** » 12:55 Thu 11 Sep 2008

SEAN C. wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:Translation: Sean hasn’t been following this thread, and, rather than read it himself, wants a summary. (Go on: tell me I’m wrong.)
You my friend are 100% correct!
Thanks for the summary!! Are you going Julian?

1. Pay attention! Being asleep has cost you a place at this coming weekend’s excellent tasting; don’t repeat the error.

2. Yes, a month or so ago my travel plans changed, facilitating my presence at the Cockburn.

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 14:48 Thu 11 Sep 2008

Axel P wrote:... there might be a 1947 inbound. Will let you know if it is confirmed...

Axel

Very cool Axel.

Post by **DRT** » 21:02 Thu 11 Sep 2008

jdaw1 wrote: The 189?: Simon Lisle has been asked a few times for a picture, but he also isn’t following the thread. I don’t know how best to nudge him into action.

I should be collecting the 198? from Simon this weekend and a picture will follow shortly thereafter.

Derek

Post by **jdaw1** » 02:31 Fri 12 Sep 2008

DRT wrote:I should be collecting the 198? from Simon this weekend and a picture will follow shortly thereafter.

Oh dear. We’ve been swindled.

g-man · Post by **g-man** » 03:33 Fri 12 Sep 2008

jdaw1 wrote:According to my records:
We need to agree start times. Perhaps 14:30 punctual and 19:00 punctual?

That is impressive. The longest time I've ever spent at the porcelain temple continuously was 2 hours (without passing out). But with all that port, I guess it's only natural =)

Alex, make sure you're sober enough to get on a plane to NY.

Post by **DRT** » 22:03 Sat 13 Sep 2008

Pictures of the 1895? as promised:

The only identifying mark n the bottle is the hand-written label tied to the neck, which has a question mark on it. The small round label on the bottle is completely illegible. After taking this picture I cleaned the neck of the bottle to see whether or not the cork is branded. The bottom half that I could see below the wax capsule looks completely black and sodden so we will have to wait until it is opened.

Derek

Post by **jdaw1** » 06:38 Sun 14 Sep 2008

Wow. So maybe Cockburn, maybe some year within a percentage point or few of 1895. We’ll find out on the night, perhaps.

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 04:48 Wed 17 Sep 2008

g-man wrote:Alex, make sure you're sober enough to get on a plane to NY.

I'm confident of making it. Despite further drinking on Oct 9, I am fully expecting to be able to get on a plane for NY via Stockholm on Sunday the following week!

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 11:45 Mon 22 Sep 2008

He all,
Since many of us leave for Portugal in less than a week, just want to make sure all is wrapped up.

1-What time is the offical start time? (round one and two)

2- Who's bringing decanters so we can decant the wines (for those not decanted ahead of time).

3- Cloth filter for decanting. I can bring cloth filters for the decanting if we don't already have that taken care of.

4- Seems Covenant Garden is a large place, for those not familiar is there a floor or section that the Crusting Pipe is in, or is it quite easy to locate even for us Yanks

5-whatever else I forgot to ask.

Post by **jdaw1** » 13:39 Mon 22 Sep 2008

Andy V wrote:He all,

?

Andy V wrote:1-What time is the offical start time? (round one and two)

jdaw1 wrote:14:30 punctual and 19:00 punctual

Andy V wrote:2- Who's bringing decanters so we can decant the wines (for those not decanted ahead of time).

The decanting committee (DRT+AHB+JDAW) will be double-decanting, so we won’t need decanters.

Andy V wrote:3- Cloth filter for decanting. I can bring cloth filters for the decanting if we don't already have that taken care of.

Coffee filter is usual. (See previous decanting experiment.)

Andy V wrote:4- Seems Covenant Garden is a large place, for those not familiar is there a floor or section that the Crusting Pipe is in, or is it quite easy to locate even for us Yanks

One storey below ground level, near the centre of the Covent Garden market. Several tube stops are within easy reach, including Covent Garden on the Piccadilly line, or, only a little further and on the District line, Charing Cross or Temple.

Andy V wrote:5-whatever else I forgot to ask.

Look. Observe hue and translucency, and, if possible, texture. Smell carefully. Swirl. Repeat smelling. Take a small sip, and taste and smell. Re-smell. Take a larger sip, noting carefully the olfactory and textural sensations throughout the mouth and throat. Locate pen. Record sensations.

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 23:30 Mon 22 Sep 2008

ok thanks

Look. Observe hue and translucency, and, if possible, texture. Smell carefully. Swirl. Repeat smelling. Take a small sip, and taste and smell. Re-smell. Take a larger sip, noting carefully the olfactory and textural sensations throughout the mouth and throat. Locate pen. Record sensations.

negative ghost rider, i will be chugging out of the bottle