New Style

[jdaw1]

I like the two alternating colors currently being used - I'll call them khaki and light khaki in case they change again.

Good names: khaki = #dfdfbf; light khaki = #e7e7cf.

[JacobH]

I like the two alternating colors currently being used - I'll call them khaki and light khaki in case they change again.

Good names: khaki = #dfdfbf; light khaki = #e7e7cf.

I agree with Glenn. Any chance of purging the final bits of ProSilver blueness (I’m thinking particularly of the Board Index image: and the boarder of the text-box when replying to posts)?

[JacobH]

Any chance of purging the final bits of ProSilver blueness (I’m thinking particularly of the Board Index image: and the boarder of the text-box when replying to posts)?

Missed these two, too: and .

[SushiNorth]

I like these two colors, I find them quite readable.

[jdaw1]

Any chance of purging the final bits of ProSilver blueness (I’m thinking particularly of the Board Index image: and the boarder of the text-box when replying to posts)?

Missed these two, too: and .

Done, I think. Please do report other inappropriate blue in this thread.

[DRT]

Regarding page width:
Most webpages do not make the entire page, left-to-right, one giant reading column. They use the left side for navigation, the right for portlets, and the reading columns are set up at about 600 pixels max. As most folks are now using tabs, too, this means the browser width is the same width for this site as it is for every other site -- aka I'm not going to change my browser width special for this site. Instead, I would recommend that a maximum width be placed on the column to spare those of us with wide screens the horrors of Carriage-Return Whiplash. Again, i am absolutely in favor of liquid width pages (where the page fills the whole screen, whatever size it might be), but not that the main text columns get out of control.

Here are a few references...
Jakob Nielsen, design guru, espousing liquid widths even as his own webpage restricts the max width of the reading column.
Web Design Layout Principles (see item 3)
Here are some other

OK. Comments noted. When the repairs already done are uploaded, I will attend to some of the additional complaints — beginning with the obvious but dull question, how do I set a maximum width? (And Jakob Nielsen is a real expert: his words carry great weight with me.)

I visited the forum on a wide-screen PC today instead of the diddy little laptop that I normally use and found that I was moving my head from side to side to read threads as the posts spanned the whole width of the screen. I now think I understand what SuchiNorth was getting at in the above post.

I had originally disagreed with this comment due to misundertanding it. I thought it was suggesting that the style should dictate the size of the browser window in which it was displayed. I hate that. I now realise that it meant that the column within which post text is displayed would have a sensible maximum width with sace either side if the browser window is wide.

Can we have this please? There seems to be general support for this.

Derek

[JacobH]

Any chance of purging the final bits of ProSilver blueness (I’m thinking particularly of the Board Index image: and the boarder of the text-box when replying to posts)?

Missed these two, too: and .

Done, I think. Please do report other inappropriate blue in this thread.

Thanks! The “Forum† and “Topic† on this page stand out in blue. There’s also some more under things like advanced search, User Control Panel -> Profile and the “Information† title after replying to post, but these stands out less so may be deliberate.

On a different topic, the User Control Panel has as a background image, which is presumably a ProSilver shadow.

[DRT]

"Joined" isn't that relevant on every post, once we get to know each other, and the PM/Email option could go to the right of the user name.

Agreed on both. Please post in New Style thread.

I don't think SushiNorth posted and JDAW has not yet implemented.

[jdaw1]

"Joined" isn't that relevant on every post, once we get to know each other, and the PM/Email option could go to the right of the user name.

If the PM etc buttons go to the right of the username, they make the name harder to read than if it stands on a line alone. So I don’t support that.

I have zapped the joined date. Objections? I might also revert to having the rank on a line of its own, as long ranks wrap. Objections?

[jdaw1]

Currently buttons are:
• usually white, with red writing and a black border;
• except when hovering, when they become red with white writing and same black border.
Derek wishes to swap these modes, so they are usually red with white writing, and when hovering become white with red writing. Before doing this labour, are there other opinions?

[DRT]

Currently buttons are:
• usually white, with red writing and a black border;
• except when hovering, when they become red with white writing and same black border.
Derek wishes to swap these modes, so they are usually red with white writing, and when hovering become white with red writing. Before doing this labour, are there other opinions?

Correction. Derek only wishes these to be swaped for buttons which sit outside posts or forums. Two examples are Reply and New Topic. These are currently white buttons on a white background, which makes them hard to identify as buttons. Buttons inside posts are white buttons on a coloured background, which makes them highly visible. I think the world can survive with some white buttons and some red buttons provided the context in which they are used is consistent.

[DRT]

"Joined" isn't that relevant on every post, once we get to know each other, and the PM/Email option could go to the right of the user name.

If the PM etc buttons go to the right of the username, they make the name harder to read than if it stands on a line alone. So I don’t support that.

Agreed.

I have zapped the joined date. Objections?

None from me.

I might also revert to having the rank on a line of its own, as long ranks wrap. Objections?

I vote yes to this.

[jdaw1]

Correction. Derek only wishes these to be swaped for buttons which sit outside posts or forums. Two examples are Reply and New Topic. These are currently white buttons on a white background, which makes them hard to identify as buttons. Buttons inside posts are white buttons on a coloured background, which makes them highly visible. I think the world can survive with some white buttons and some red buttons provided the context in which they are used is consistent.

I don’t like it, so first am trying much larger buttons.

[DRT]

Correction. Derek only wishes these to be swaped for buttons which sit outside posts or forums. Two examples are Reply and New Topic. These are currently white buttons on a white background, which makes them hard to identify as buttons. Buttons inside posts are white buttons on a coloured background, which makes them highly visible. I think the world can survive with some white buttons and some red buttons provided the context in which they are used is consistent.

I don’t like it, so first am trying much larger buttons.

I remain confused as to your reluctance to change the Reply and New Topic buttons. My initial argument was that these looked out of place alongside the then adjacent Search button which was in the default grey style. That problem has gone away now that the search function has been removed. But we still have a white Reply button at the foot of each thread with three grey "Go" buttons in the same area. This is far les consistent than simply reversing the default/hover versions of the standard TPFR button style for the two buttons I have mentioned previously.

[DRT]

I ...first am trying much larger buttons.

These are certainly much larger. But nothing I have said previously has changed.

A stylistic compromise: could the buttons outside posts and forums (including the "Go" buttons) have a light Khaki background instead of white?

Incidentally, on the page I am looking at whilst typing this post there are 16 grey buttons visible.

[jdaw1]

A stylistic compromise: could the buttons outside posts and forums (including the "Go" buttons) have a light Khaki background instead of white?

Reply and New Topic done. OK?

Slightly tricksy to colour just the Go buttons. Easier to do all buttons of that format, or none.

[DRT]

A stylistic compromise: could the buttons outside posts and forums (including the "Go" buttons) have a light Khaki background instead of white?

Reply and New Topic done. OK?

Slightly tricksy to colour just the Go buttons. Easier to do all buttons of that format, or none.

If easier then please do all the grey ones in Khaki. I like the new Reply and New Topic buttons

[DRT]

Perhaps you should also do the 1...2 3 4 5 6 page buttons? Presumably it is just one image with a dynamic number?

[DRT]

I like the new Reply and New Topic buttons

But would it be pushing my luck to ask to have them larger?

[jdaw1]

But would it be pushing my luck to ask to have them larger?

Maybe tomorrow.

[SushiNorth]

Regarding max-width
I think we agreed to do this once things were a little more stable (and they're getting close now).
Let me know when you want me to take a crack at inserting the code, and point me at which CSS we're making changes in, and I'll send back changes for it
It might take me a few tries to get it right, which is what worries me. I'll test but we'll need to really check into it to be sure it works properly on the different page types.

[jdaw1]

SushiNorth: ready when you are.

Also fixed: zapped text peeking out from behind the locked icon that top-and-tails locked threads.

[DRT]

Regarding max-width
I think we agreed to do this once things were a little more stable (and they're getting close now).
Let me know when you want me to take a crack at inserting the code, and point me at which CSS we're making changes in, and I'll send back changes for it
It might take me a few tries to get it right, which is what worries me. I'll test but we'll need to really check into it to be sure it works properly on the different page types.

Can I suggest an easy solution to this. You are in NY. JDAW is in NY. Bottles of Port are in NY. JDAW has the ability to upload the CSS to in seconds following the think>>edit>>promote>>view>>gulp>>re-edit>>re-view>>feel smug>>gloat development lifecycle. You, JDAW, a laptop, an internet connection and a bottle of port will have this sorted in no time

[jdaw1]

SushiNorth: ready when you are.

[DRT]

Should we have a coloured background in the site header?

PS: This is not a question for JDAW

[jdaw1]

Should we have a coloured background in the site header?

PS: This is not a question for JDAW

But I’ll answer it anyway. No. It is plenty clear enough. Don’t make it an island: the whole page is , not just the header.

[DRT]

JDAW,

Please look here. The red used in the Poll should perhaps be TPF Red? When you find it in the CSS you might want to review the other colours used for alternative answers.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Saw that. Had already decided that it needed work — but precluded by baby-sitting.

If we’re down to squabbling about poll colours, does that mean it can become the default style.

[DRT]

Saw that. Had already decided that it needed work — but precluded by baby-sitting.

If we’re down to squabbling about poll colours, does that mean it can become the default style.

Squabbling? Who's squabbling? We are in total agreement.

Give me the larger Reply and New Topic buttons and change the default grey things as promised last night and I'll say yes.

[jdaw1]

larger Reply and New Topic buttons

And New PM and Forward: done.

[jdaw1]

Ghastly poll bars believed repaired.

[jdaw1]

ThePortForumRed is now the standard setting for everybody.

Complaints in this thread please.

Known issues:

• The right-aligned lines in the header don’t line up very elegantly for all window widths.
• Width-adjusting code requires writing by SushiNorth and including by jdaw1.

[DRT]

All user profiles have been set to use ThePortForumRed as their Board Style. There is also an alternative style known as ThePortForumSilver. You can select whichever style you want to use by going to the User Control Panel and selecting the "Board preferences" tab. On the Board preferences screen you will see an option to select "My Board Style". Select the style you want and click the Submit button at the bottom of the screen to set your preferred style.

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Thank you for the silver choice..that red is totally annoying and hurts my eyes to try and read.

[jdaw1]

Thank you for the silver choice..that red is totally annoying and hurts my eyes to try and read.

What annoys? Please be specific.

[JacobH]

Glad to see the new style now being the default!

A small thing which I’ve just noticed is that the text in the Search box has a little much left margin between the text and the edge of the box (perhaps because on ProSilver there is a background image which is located there?).

[jdaw1]

A small thing which I’ve just noticed is that the text in the Search box has a little much left margin between the text and the edge of the box (perhaps because on ProSilver there is a background image which is located there?).

Good spot: fixed, and box widened.

[jdaw1]

Also made a small change to the thread icons: read announcements and read stickies now have their ‘writing’ in red rather than tawny.

[RonnieRoots]

Hm, I thought I already posted this, but apparently it didn't come through (blasted internet connection here in the desert!)

External links open in the same window as the original. Can these please be changed to "_blank" by default? That would definitely improve navigation.

Also, I posted a question about the search function in a seperate thread, as I don't know if it belongs to the 'new style' problems. Can one of the admins take a look into that? Thanks.

[DRT]

Ronnie's question about the search function, posted here was as follows:

The search function in the upper right part of the site doesn't seem to function as it used to since the upgrade. E.g. I tried searching on +port +books (both with and without the '+') but nothing came up, while I was sure that I once wrote a topic called "Good books on port". Advanced search gave the same problem. I encountered the same problem with a recent search for another topic, where only a couple of recent topics came up, but not the older one I was looking for.

Is this a known problem?

Ronnie,

This now seems to be working OK. It may have been a glitch whilst the upgrade was ongoing as we were temporarily using a second installation of phpBB and the pointers to the data may have got confumbled

Can you please test it again and let us know?

[DRT]

External links open in the same window as the original. Can these please be changed to "_blank" by default? That would definitely improve navigation.

Ronnie,

I have had a look around the Admin settings and can see nothing obvious that would control this so it may not be configurable without editing the code. It may in fact be a feature of this version of phpBB. Jdaw may know how to set this, especially if he has made it do what it does now intentionally.

For the record: I agree with Ronnie and prefer when external links launch a new window. As it is now, backwards navigation is a rather labourious ball-ache.

Note: I just checked and does the same thing as , which suggests this is a feature of the software.

[RonnieRoots]

Thanks for checking Derek. Hopefully jdaw will be able to change the setting. It would certainly make life easier.

The search function still doesn't operate like it should. It seems that only data from after the phpBB upgrade is given. For instance, if you type +port +books you'll get 8 (with this new entry probably 9) results. All posts are from end of August, beginning September, but the original thread is much older and not listed. Another example: June 27 2007 I posted a review called "A Weekend at Qta. do Passadouro (April 2004)". Try searching for weekend and passadouro and nothing will come up. Strange...

[DRT]

Ronnie,

This sounds like exactly the same problem Stewart Todd had on when they first upgraded. I will email him to ask what solved the problem.

Derek

[RonnieRoots]

Thanks!

[Andy Velebil]

Thank you for the silver choice..that red is totally annoying and hurts my eyes to try and read.

What annoys? Please be specific.

For some reason websites with that much red bother my eyes to look at and try and read. The more neutral silver is far easier for me to look at and read.

[DRT]

Ronnie,

This sounds like exactly the same problem Stewart Todd had on when they first upgraded. I will email him to ask what solved the problem.

Derek

Stewart gave me some pointers and I have now fixed this - I think?

Thanks, Stewart

Derek

[jdaw1]

External links open in the same window as the original. Can these please be changed to "_blank" by default? That would definitely improve navigation.

I don’t think that the style can distinguish between links to a page on and external links. I will investigate.

But why not use the easier solution. Control-click, or on a Mac command-click, will open a link — any true link, any website — in a new tab. So you can determine, click by click, which you want.

[DRT]

But why not use the easier solution. Control-click, or on a Mac command-click, will open a link — any true link, any website — in a new tab. So you can determine, click by click, which you want.

On [my] Windows XP Professional IE6: Shift-click opens in a new window.

Derek

[RonnieRoots]

External links open in the same window as the original. Can these please be changed to "_blank" by default? That would definitely improve navigation.

I don’t think that the style can distinguish between links to a page on and external links. I will investigate.

Then, wouldn't it be better to have both opened in a new window? I always like it when the main navigational window keeps intact.

But why not use the easier solution. Control-click, or on a Mac command-click, will open a link — any true link, any website — in a new tab. So you can determine, click by click, which you want.

I know that, but I think having it prefixed is more user-friendly.

The search function works perfectly now, thanks!

[jdaw1]

Strongly disagree with everything-in-new-window idea. Enormous clutter. Nothing in new window at least gives users a choice: right-click and choose Open in New Window.

And having investigated, the CSS doesn’t allow distinction between internal and external links. Can’t find it in the HTML. So we’re staying with default behaviour.