Tasting Notes Section

[DRT]

Do we want/need and guidelines around how we use the TN section?

Derek

[Conky]

Maybe you can 'recover' TN's that you have made previously, for this section. But of course, not anyone else's. Please include a Score.
Just cram them in, and we can edit and filter later. We can also work out replies, or not, etc, in the course of time. But lets get the raw material in there.

Alan.

[KillerB]

Got to agree with Conky on this. It's just another section, I don't want to threaten removal of posts for not following rules, so be civil and sensible is the only rule.

[jdaw1]

Actually, having this section machine readable would be a great joy in the future. And the time to work on that is now.
• As for webmasterlyness, there’s no harm in a standing policy of you changing thread titles to conform to generally-accepted practice.

Propose:
Title = YYYY House, where House ∈ {Taylor, Fonseca, Graham, Noval, Nacional, Dow, Croft, Warre, Andresen, Cockburn, Rabello Valente, Malvedos, Vargellas, Calem, Royal Oporto, Smith Woodhouse, Messias, …}.

The stricter the form, the more reliable the sucking-in of data.

Standardised scoring nomeclature?
• UncleTomScore=A/B
• ParkerScore=C

[KillerB]

Currently, they are all House then Year, which should work for most. The type needs to be in the title and then what to do about tawnies.

Also, do we really want to dictate in this way? I know it will make downloads easier but is that as important as encouraging TNs?

[DRT]

I think we could have hidelines rather than rules in a locked sticky at the too of the tn area.

If some don't follow them then so what? But most regulars probably will which will make searching easier.
Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

So what was the final decision?

YYYY House Style

Where do the scores go? In the title? At the end of the tasting note? In what format?

Once I get some clear guidance then I will try to find some time to paste some TNs into the TN section.

Alex

[jdaw1]

Title = YYYY House

Score represented as one of

• UncleTomScore = 8/9
• ParkerScore = 99

[Alex Bridgeman]

So how do we distinguish between wines - do we just assume that people know that 1995 Warre must refer to the LBV? Or do we put the descriptor in the body of the tasting note?

Can I use two different scores like a Tom score AND a Parker score?

Alex

[DRT]

AHB,

I have been putting descriptors in the title - "Vintage Port" or "LBV" etc

On scores, I would say do whatever you like but keep them to the end of the note in the format or formats shown by jdaw above.

Derek

[KillerB]

So far everybody has been putting, very reasonably in my opinion, Year, Producer, Type. As it is normally only year that goes into a separate field it is important to have it in an easily identifiable place, i.e. the beginning.

I'm happy the way it is.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Thanks all. When time permits I will load up as many of my tasting notes as I can. For the moment, I have loaded up the TN for the Morgan 1991 since that is likely to prove the wine that gets drunk most often over the next couple of years.

Alex

[Conky]

Now that the Tasting Notes Section is taking shape wonderfully, whats the chance of a search facility?
With possible searches under Years, Names, maybe even scores?
I understand if its too time consuming, or a long way off, but at least we now have the raw materials to make it worthwhile.

Alan

[Alex Bridgeman]

I've just had a bit of a play with the site search facility and you can search just the tasting notes section of the forum - for example I have just done a search for wines from 1989.

Unfortunately, there isn't an option to only search post titles - its either "post titles and message text" or just "message text". That means that the aforementioned search for 1989 wines came up with the entire list of Derek's Vesuvio tasting notes as he included the comment in the message text that the note was taken at a tasting of a complete vertical of Vesuvio's vintage ports from the Symington era from 1989 to 2004.

Alex

[DRT]

I will amend them

[Conky]

After the discussion here, what should such a Port be classified as NV or VP. ? ?

A minor techical point but will set the precedent for all future ones.

Alan

[DRT]

Taylors Quinta De Terra Feita 96 is VP

Cruz Ruby is NV

In fact, only port which is not from a single year qualifies as NV. So, all VP, SQVP, LBV, Colhieta and Garafierra cannot be called NV.

NV's that spring to mind are Ruby, Tawny, Aged Tawny, Crusted

Derek

[Conky]

Thanks. Amended.

Alan

[Alex Bridgeman]

Just wanted to say thanks to Admin for the index of all the tasting notes, excellent addition to the forum.

Alex

[DRT]

Great stuff, thanks.

I remain available to do some work on raw data to make it fit into whatever format jdaw comes up with.

It would be worth exploring wheter or not jdaw or someone else could come up with a TN database application that could be hosted elsewhere but exclusively accessed from here so that our TN's could be entered directly into the searchable and sortable database rather than relying on the time and skills of Admin to keep the structured version up to date.

Derek

[Andy Velebil]

Very cool, thanks for the hard work.

[jdaw1]

Comment on this list would be welcomed.

[Frederick Blais]

Amazing work!

[Conky]

Well done.

Much easier than trawling through the jumbled original.

Will it be easy to maintain?

Although Alex did the original sorting, should the links list be given Prime spot as a sticky at the top of the section.

Alan

[jdaw1]

Will it be easy to maintain?

Alex will email me data updates from time to time (monthly?), and then it’ll be a modest fraction of an hour to put the data in the right form.

Although Alex did the original sorting, should the links list be given Prime spot as a sticky at the top of the section.

Agreed.

[KillerB]

Which was my question. I will shuffle mine down in some way or other.

[jdaw1]

No. Delete: it’s just another thing that we can fail to maintain.

[KillerB]

I've separated out and given it a new title.

Thanks for the responses. Julian offered to do the links based upon the data if I could provide the post-ids. He did a great job last night with the spreadsheet that I'd compiled. I will recompile this on a regular basis and send it to him to do the magic.

[jdaw1]

Things that could be added to the list of TNs:

• Link to the shipper’s website?
• Scores? (Only if someone is willing to help extract them from each thread?)
• Tasting date? (Only if someone is willing to help extract them from each thread?)
• Nothing (laziness wins)?

[Frederick Blais]

if we are able to set a specific canvas that every one could use when writing a TN, I'd be happy to write the SQL to retrieve the information from the database field.

[jdaw1]

PM me your email address and this evening I’ll send you and ARK the spreadsheet that makes the BB code.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Julian

Where you note a date on the tasting notes index, is this the date that the note was taken or the date the note was posted?

I assume that it was the date the note was posted as that is what KillerB will be able to extract automatically for you.

As a result, I have tried to include in my narrative the actual date that I took the tasting note so that anyone reading my note will know how current it is.

Alex

[jdaw1]

Posted, not taken. Extracting tasting dates and scores would require reading the narrative: if you want to do that I’ll tell you how best to send to me.

[jdaw1]

It seems there is an upper limit to the amount of text that can go in a single post, now exceeded by the TN index. Hence it has been split into parts 1 and 2.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I've just taken a look through the new index and it's very impressive. There's a little bit of inconsistency on the titles that I'd ask one of the admins or the note owner to take care of for the next update (Burmester LBV (unfiltered) or Burmester Unfiltered LBV).

I also thought that we had a tasting note on the Tesco 1995 vintage port, but I can't find this in the Tasting Note forum so I must be imagining it.

Particularly impressive are the depth of tasting notes on Cockburn and on Nacional. I'm about to add a couple of extra notes just to add to the depth a little.

But this is brilliant work and makes the tasting note forum so much more useable than it would otherwise be.

Alex

[jdaw1]

General tidying of LBV names done. Please confirm satisfactory.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Croft confirmed as tidied up. However, I apologise for not having noticed previously but I have also identified similar "title inconsistency" errors with the Graham's Crusted Port (vs Graham's crusted), Niepoort Colheita, Noval Colheita, Smith Woodhouse bottle matured LBV (vs Smith Woodhouse Traditional LBV and possible Smith Woodhouse LBV) and the Warre LBVs.

Alex

[jdaw1]

Crusted fixed. Not sure what else you think is wrong. Please submit more clearly, perhaps in form:

• ThisWrongThing1 ThisCorrectThing1
• ThisWrongThing2 ThisCorrectThing2
• ThisWrongThing3 ThisCorrectThing3

[Alex Bridgeman]

Niepoort Colheita is appearing with two title headings, both Niepoort Colheita.

Noval Colheita similar.

Smith Woodhouse Traditional LBV and Smith Woodhouse Bottle Matured LBV are the same thing. I suggest we agree on Smith Woodhouse Unfiltered LBV as the convention to follow since this is consistent with the description used for a number of other shippers. Therefore, in your requested format:
Smith Woodhouse bottle matured LBV Smith Woodhouse Unfiltered LBV
Smith Woodhouse Traditional LBV Smith Woodhouse Unfiltered LBV

Warre LBV 1992 Warre Unfiltered LBV 1992
Warre LBV 1995 Warre Unfiltered LBV 1995


Is this the format that you need?

Alex

[Alex Bridgeman]

I've just read the two notes under the heading of Smith Woodhouse LBV (1994 from DRT and 1995 from FB). The description of these notes both refer to LBVs that are unfiltered. Therefore a further correction is suggested:

Smith Woodhouse LBV Smith Woodhouse Unfiltered LBV


I have also changed the title of my tasting note to now read 1984 Smith Woodhouse Unfiltered LBV.

Alex

[jdaw1]

• Colhieta Colheita

Perhaps! (Both spelling are prevalent on TPF, FTLOP and the web more widely.)

Admin: should this be corrected across TPF, or left as is?

Parts 1 and 2 updated: further comment welcomed. (And spreadsheet lightly improved to reduce probability of error and increase automation.)

[Alex Bridgeman]

In the sentiment of improving automation, should we agree to name the LBV tasting notes as "1984 Warre LBV" and leave the differentiation between filtered and unfiltered / traditional / bottle matured in the description?

That would also follow more closely the nomenclature approved by the IVDP - Vintage Port, Late Bottled Vintage Port, Ruby Port etc.

Would this make sense - all comments (not just from Julian) would be welcome.

Alex

[jdaw1]

In the sentiment of improving automation, should we agree to name the LBV tasting notes as "1984 Warre LBV" and leave the differentiation between filtered and unfiltered / traditional / bottle matured in the description?

Provided the title of the thread makes clear what is being drunk, this proposal makes little difference to automation. Though still might (or might not) be worthwhile for IVDP compatibility.

[jdaw1]

Let’s allow wider comment. The spreadsheet has a list of ports. All names should look like one of the list below: comment welcome, improvements better.

1. Andresen;
2. Andresen Unfiltered LBV;
3. Quinta de Baldias;
4. Quinta de Baldias Unfiltered LBV;
5. Barros;
6. Berry Bros Selection;
7. Berry’s Vintage Character;
8. Borges;
9. Quinta do Bragào Colheita;
10. Quinta da Brunheda;
11. Quinta da Brunheda Colheita;
12. Burmester;
13. Burmester Unfiltered LBV;
14. Cálem;
15. Quinta da Cavadinha;
16. Churchill crusted;
17. Churchill’s;
18. Churchill’s Quinta da Agua Alta;
19. Churchill’s Unfiltered LBV;
20. Cockburn;
21. Quinta do Crasto;
22. Quinta do Crasto LBV;
23. Croft;
24. Croft Unfiltered LBV;
25. Croft Platinum Reserve;
26. Croft Quinta da Roeda;
27. Dalva (Presidential);
28. Davy’s;
29. Delaforce;
30. Delaforce 20Y Tawny;
31. Delaforce Quinta da Corte;
32. do Vesuvio Finest Reserve 1991;
33. Dow;
34. Dow 10Y Tawny;
35. Dow Quinta do Bomfim;
36. Dow Crusted Port;
37. Dow LBV;
38. Dow Tawny;
39. Duff Gordon;
40. Feist LBV;
41. Ferreira;
42. Ferreira LBV;
43. Quinta do Fojo;
44. Fonseca;
45. Fonseca 20Y Tawny;
46. Fonseca Bin 27;
47. Fonseca Quinta do Cruzeiro;
48. Fonseca Guimaraens;
49. Fonseca Quinta do Panascal;
50. Fonseca Terra Prima Reserve;
51. Gonzalez Byass;
52. Gould Campbell;
53. Graham’s;
54. Graham’s Crusted;
55. Graham’s Crusted Port;
56. Graham’s LBV;
57. Graham’s Malvedos;
58. Graham’s Reserve;
59. Gran Cruz;
60. Guedes Unfiltered LBV;
61. Harvey’s (Martinez);
62. Hutcheson;
63. Quinta do Infantado;
64. Ko-öperatiewe Wijnbouwers Vereniging;
65. Kopke;
66. Kopke Colheita;
67. Kopke Quinta S. Luiz;
68. Kopke Tawny;
69. Krohn Colheita;
70. Krohn’s;
71. Krohn’s Quinta do Retiro Novo;
72. Marks & Spencer LBV;
73. Messias;
74. Mitcheltombs;
75. Morgan;
76. Nacional;
77. Napa Valley Port Cellars;
78. Niepoort;
79. Niepoort 20Y Tawny;
80. Niepoort Colheita;
81. Niepoort Dry White Port;
82. Niepoort Garrafeira;
83. Niepoort Quinta do Passadouro;
84. Niepoort Secundum;
85. Quinta Nova de Nossa Senhora do Carmo LBV;
86. Noval;
87. Noval Colheita;
88. Noval Crusted;
89. Noval LBV;
90. Noval LBV Unfiltered;
91. Noval Silval;
92. Offley;
93. Offley Boa Vista;
94. Offley Colheita;
95. Osborne;
96. Pintas;
97. Poças;
98. Quinta do Portal;
99. Porto Cruz 20Y Tawny;
100. Presidential Reserve Golden White Port;
101. Quarles Harris;
102. Quinta do Crasto Unfiltered LBV;
103. Ramos Pinto;
104. Ramos Pinto Quinta de Ervamoira;
105. Ramos Pinto LBV;
106. Rebello Valente;
107. Robertson;
108. Quinta da Romaneira;
109. Quinta da Romaneira LBV;
110. Romariz;
111. Quinta de Roriz;
112. Roriz LBV;
113. Royal Oporto;
114. Rozès;
115. Rozès Unfiltered LBV;
116. Sandeman;
117. Sandeman Vau;
118. São Pedro das Aguias;
119. Smith Woodhouse;
120. Smith Woodhouse Unfiltered LBV;
121. Smith Woodhouse Madalena;
122. Taylor;
123. Taylor Fladgate 10Y Tawny;
124. Taylor LBV;
125. Taylor Quinta de Terra Feita;
126. Taylor Quinta de Vargellas;
127. Taylor Quinta de Vargellas Vinha Velha;
128. Tesco’s Symington;
129. Quinta do Vale Dona Maria Reserve;
130. Quinta de Vale Meão;
131. Quinta de Ventozelo;
132. Quinta do Vesuvio;
133. Vista Allegre;
134. Quinta da Vista Allegre;
135. Warre;
136. Warre Quinta da Cavadinha;
137. Warre Colheita;
138. Warre LBV;
139. Warre Filtered LBV;
140. Warre Unfiltered LBV;
141. Warre Otima Tawny.

(There’s a second list that controls sort order, that mostly looks like the above minus “Quinta do †s.

Should the non-tawny non-LBVs non-SQs acquire the words “vintage port†, thus non-capitalised?

[Conky]

I think you're doing a fine job, and I'll let others help you decide on how to get it 'just so'. I do have a question. Would there be any way of 'searching' or seeing the Ports by score? I'd love to create a list of which received over 90, over 95, or even for fun, under 75.
I know some see such things as a tad crass, but each to their own.
One difficulty would be the two scoring systems?

Alan

[KillerB]

Too much like hard work, Conky. The scores are within the text of the posts rather than the title. This is the sort of thing that Cellar Tracker offers but that is specific software as against us messing about with a generic forum format.

Unless Julian is willing to do the work for this I suspect that this is a bit too much to ask. It would require trawling through posts to find the scores, some of which do not even have scores.

[jdaw1]

I think you're doing a fine job, and I'll let others help you decide on how to get it 'just so'. I do have a question. Would there be any way of 'searching' or seeing the Ports by score? I'd love to create a list of which received over 90, over 95, or even for fun, under 75.
I know some see such things as a tad crass, but each to their own.
One difficulty would be the two scoring systems?

Yes, it’s very easy. All I do is find a volunteer (hello Alan) to go through all the TNs, one by one, and write down the scores next to the post number (that is, the bit of the link that comes after “p=†). Given such a two-column (or more columns, one for the post number and one per scoring system) spreadsheet, I can do the rest.

Get to it.

[Conky]

Great.

Right then, I accept that challenge. I'll try to do a few every time I log on.
Don't have a clue about that link number lark, but I'm sure I'll see it when I try.

Alan

[jdaw1]

If you’re really going to do this, it is worth doing it right the first time. Let’s not do lots, and then learn that you’ve done nothing. Do a dozen, not more, and email me the spreadsheet / text file. I will convert it to BB code and put it in this thread so that others can check and comment on your handiwork.

Columns might include:

• Post number;
• Date of consumption;
• True|False special-case flag (exclude from averages as a bad bottle, or served too cold, or whatever);
• UncleTomScore;
• 50→100 Parker score.

What might be missing that would be worth recording?

[Conky]

So I am not just amending the heading then?

Spreadsheets! Text Files!

Give me a break. You know what I do for a living...how often do you think I come across them!

My enthusiasm has took a knock, and I now suspect Alex grasped the situation better.

Please let me know if you just made it sound complicated, or whether you're seriously over-estimating my accounting skills.