Top Shippers

Post by **DRT** » 01:47 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Here's a good Nerdy question for you...

Only 9 shippers managed to achieve a score of 96 to 100 points on the Wine Spectator scale for their vintages up to 1987. Can you name them?

The winner is allowed to feel smug for 24 hours, unless he used google, a book or any similar reference source rather than trying to guess.

Derek

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 10:47 Sun 05 Aug 2007

OK, wild guesses:

Taylor
Fonseca
Graham
Noval Nacional
Dow
Warre
Vesuvio
Croft
Sandeman

I was going to put Cruz but decided that I'm far too competitive, even when I haven't really got a clue.

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 11:15 Sun 05 Aug 2007

I doubt Vesuvio will in there..

..they didn't start bottling under their own name until '89

I'd guess that the regular Noval will be in there

Tom

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 12:12 Sun 05 Aug 2007

even when I haven't really got a clue.

I have reasons for putting this.

Post by **DRT** » 16:31 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Dow, warre and vesuvio are wrong. I counted Noval and Noval Nacional as one shipper.

Keep guessing...

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 16:39 Sun 05 Aug 2007

It shouldn't be there, but I'd guess Ferreira will be on it due to their huge export policies, and resulting sycophantic 'experts'. If thats right, I'd then guess Kopke for the same reasons. Globally, those two brands can get where Gas couldn't!

Alan

Frederick Blais · Post by **Frederick Blais** » 17:19 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Don't forget Cockburn's who did great Port

Taylor
Fonseca
Graham
Noval
Croft
Sandeman
Cockburn
Niepoort
Ferreira

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 17:26 Sun 05 Aug 2007

I object to having Cockburn shown in good light. This is due to my well known dislike of their low-end Ports, which make the Graham and Taylor low offerings look like good stuff.

I'm disappointed for Dow and Warre's - both very good shippers at all levels.

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 18:03 Sun 05 Aug 2007

I wonder if there's a deceased name in there - Rebello Valente perhaps?

Tom

Post by **DRT** » 22:41 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Fred scored 8/9 - the last one to be found is a Portuguese house but not Ferreira. Their claim to fame on the 100 point scale came in the form of a 98/100 score for their 1871 vintage tasted in 1989 - incredibly, despite this very high score at 118 years of age, Mr Suckling recommended that we should drink-up before the end of 1990

Derek

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 22:46 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Dagnabbit. My hatred of all things Cockburn got me again. And me assuming that Niepoort being an early...dr...in...k...ing...port. Aaaaahhhhh... of, course, Suckles is a septic. How about

Martinez

Post by **DRT** » 22:51 Sun 05 Aug 2007

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 22:58 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Rats.

I now have to rely on my knowledge of young Jimmy based on our long, drawn-out conversations on-line and come to a conclusion of what his psyche would consider a top ranking Port. I might go and ask him.

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 22:59 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Da Silva???

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 23:02 Sun 05 Aug 2007

What? The great Sri Lankan all-rounder made a Port? Really?

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 23:07 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Now dont laugh. But they did make Port in the 1800's. And to me it sounded Portuguese-ish!

If the clue Portuguese House, doesn't mean a name that sounds Portuguese, I'm seriously barking up the wrong tree. But as my Avatar will confirm... Dont Push Me!!!

Alan

uncle tom · Post by **uncle tom** » 23:15 Sun 05 Aug 2007

OK it's...

..no, I cheated, I won't say - but I had some emails yesterday from a guy who's got 5 cases of their '78 inherited from his dad - I had to break it to him that his dad's choice of investment wasn't ideal... He's also got a case of their colheitas from 1960 - seemingly bottled about 25 years ago.

- I suggested that they might make £10/bottle if he was lucky...

Tom

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 23:18 Sun 05 Aug 2007

Cruuuuuuuuzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!

Post by **DRT** » 23:46 Sun 05 Aug 2007

You just can't help yourself, can you Alex? No, it's not Cruuuuuuzzzzzz.

...and no, Alan, it isn't Da Silva.

Tom has the answer and I'd be interested to know if he was as surprised as I was at their inclusion in this list?

For those still scratching around for an answer - it's 2 words, one of which is very common in the world of Port.

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 23:57 Sun 05 Aug 2007

I'm swtill stuck on Portuguese sounding...

Ramos Pinto?

I know that cant be right because of your previous clue.

But Hey, I'm doing nothing else.

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 00:00 Mon 06 Aug 2007

Or Royal Oporto!!!

There's a word we use a lot in the Port World!

Post by **DRT** » 00:00 Mon 06 Aug 2007

You're right, it's no right

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 00:04 Mon 06 Aug 2007

No, it's not Cruuuuuuzzzzzz.

Well, it was bloody Cockburn's.

Post by **DRT** » 00:05 Mon 06 Aug 2007

Conky wrote:Or Royal Oporto!!!

There's a word we use a lot in the Port World!

As there are no rules to this game I declare Conky the winner, despite the fact that others gave him more tham 90% or the answer.

Fred is second for coming up with Niepoort

Tom is third for cheating

KillerB is eliminated for mentioning Cruz

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 00:08 Mon 06 Aug 2007

I'd firstly like to thank my parents for having faith in me.........

(I think next time, I'll cheat!!!)

Post by **DRT** » 00:14 Mon 06 Aug 2007

Don't you think you should have thanked Debbie for putting up with you?

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 00:17 Mon 06 Aug 2007

Why? Doesn't everyone have a cute, curvy, sexy blonde by their side???

(As you will gather, she's well tucked up!)

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 00:21 Mon 06 Aug 2007

Nope - we're both with brunettes - and flipping gorgeous they are too.

Quick Derek, agree, they may be watching

Post by **DRT** » 00:23 Mon 06 Aug 2007

I agree with Alex

Phew! that was close!

mosesbotbol · Post by **mosesbotbol** » 15:13 Mon 06 Aug 2007

Is Ramos Pinto or Delaforce the missing shipper?

Post by **DRT** » 22:55 Mon 06 Aug 2007

The complete list, taken from Suckling's Vintage Port is:

100 Points

Fonseca 1927
Fonseca 1948
Fonseca 1977
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1931
Qunita do Noval Nacional 1963

99 Points

Croft 1945
Quinta do Noval 1931
Taylor's 1948

98 Points

Fonseca 1963
Niepoort 1955
Quinta do Noval 1934
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1966
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1970
Royal Oporto 1871
Sandeman 1870
Taylor's 1970
Taylor's 1977

97 Points

Cockburn 1983
Fonseca 1966
Graham's 1963
Niepoort 1927
Niepoort 1945
Taylor's 1945
Taylor's 1963

96 Points

Fonseca 1955
Fonseca 1970
Graham's 1985
Sandeman 1963

Most prolific is Fonseca with 7 wines in the above list. Quinta do Noval have 6 and Taylor's have 5. Niepoort have 3 wines in the list and Graham's and Sandeman each have 2. Croft, Royal Oporto and Cockburn each have only 1.

Derek

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 13:27 Tue 07 Aug 2007

Derek T. wrote:The complete list, taken from Suckling's Vintage Port is:

100 Points
Fonseca 1927
Fonseca 1948
Fonseca 1977
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1931
Qunita do Noval Nacional 1963
99 Points
Croft 1945
Quinta do Noval 1931
Taylor's 1948
98 Points
Fonseca 1963
Niepoort 1955
Quinta do Noval 1934
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1966
Quinta do Noval Nacional 1970
Royal Oporto 1871
Sandeman 1870
Taylor's 1970
Taylor's 1977
97 Points
Cockburn 1983
Fonseca 1966
Graham's 1963
Niepoort 1927
Niepoort 1945
Taylor's 1945
Taylor's 1963
96 Points
Fonseca 1955
Fonseca 1970
Graham's 1985
Sandeman 1963
Most prolific is Fonseca with 7 wines in the above list. Quinta do Noval have 6 and Taylor's have 5. Niepoort have 3 wines in the list and Graham's and Sandeman each have 2. Croft, Royal Oporto and Cockburn each have only 1.

Derek

Let's play another game now - how many of these have you had (or will have had after the TPF Offline #2) and broadly agree with Suckling's scores.

I've had 11 of these wines and broadly (ie. +/-2) agree with Suckling's scores on only 5 of those. I guess the others we're just bad bottles or the wines had deteriorated over the 20 years between him drinking them and me drinking them.

Alex

Note: Edited by DT to remove a listing syntax error in original post

KillerB · Post by **KillerB** » 14:12 Tue 07 Aug 2007

I've had 10 but have to disagree with placings. I'm not daft enough to try and claim that a wine is a precise point between 95 and 100, except that I can say my preferences. I have had Fonseca 1977 twice, 1970 three times and 1966 twice. One 66 was a goner and I didn't get the spectacular 1977 but I think that 1970 was great all three times and the other 66 was spectacular.

I loved all of the above Ports.

Post by **DRT** » 15:54 Tue 07 Aug 2007

I have tasted the following wines from the above list:

100 Points

Fonseca 1977 (TPF offline #1)
Qunita do Noval Nacional 1963 (Dinner at QdN Oct 06)

99 Points

Croft 1945 (sample from AHB in Apr 06)
Qunita do Noval 1931 (sample from Uncle Tom in Dec 06)

98 Points

Fonseca 1963 (Crusting Pipe Offline Nov 05)
Taylor's 1970 (Crusting Pipe Offline Nov 05)
Taylor's 1977 (Dinner at Q do Vargellas Oct 06)

97 Points

Fonseca 1966 (Crusting Pipe Offline Nov 05)
Graham's 1963 (3 Offlines in Nov 05, Aug 06 and May 07)
Taylor's 1963 (Crusting Pipe Offline Nov 05)

96 Points

Fonseca 1955 (Offline with Tom in Dec 06 and TPF Offline #1)
Fonseca 1970 (Crusting Pipe Offline Nov 05)
Graham's 1985 (on my own )
Sandeman 1963 (Crusting Pipe Offline Nov 05 and very much better bottle with AHB in Aug 06)

That's 14 fabulous wines and a statistic which surprises me greatly

Like KillerB, I would not be so bold as to attempt to put specific 100-Point scores on these wines but I can say that my memory of each of them is extremely good on at least 1 occassion of drinking them. I could not argue that any of these do not deserve their place on this list.

Derek

Post by **jdaw1** » 18:43 Tue 07 Aug 2007

I’m surprised to find myself saying I’ve had as many as 13 or 14 (memory gap means I’m not sure about one).

Post by **DRT** » 21:53 Tue 07 Aug 2007

AHB,

I know that you have had at least 13 of those in my list. We shared 12 of them at various Offlines and the other is the QdN31 which I know you have had. The one I'm not sure of is Graham's 1985. If you know you have this one then you have had 14, plus any that are not in my list.

Derek

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 00:44 Wed 08 Aug 2007

Conky wrote:Why? Doesn't everyone have a cute, curvy, sexy blonde by their side???

Well, they are usually not that good looking, occassionally smell, are handcuffed..not always a bad thing, and are locked in the backseat

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 01:14 Wed 08 Aug 2007

Derek puts me to shame by knowing the ports I have drunk better than I do myself - I can only claim lack of access to my tasting notes as an excuse.

It seems that there are at least 2 and possibly 3 of Suckling's ports that I have drunk and failed to remember. Tom's Fonseca '55 was one and the Taylor '77 at Vargellas was the other. I can't remember if I have had a Graham '85 or not.

While all but one spoiled bottle of Fonseca '66 were very enjoyable wines, make that 5 out of 13 Suckling scores that I broadly agree with.

Alex

Post by **DRT** » 11:55 Wed 08 Aug 2007

I can honestly say that I only had to look up 2 of these in my notes, T77 and C45. The latter only because I can never remember if it was the 45 or 55.

Alex, I promise to be there for you when senility finally takes hold and you can't remember who you wanted to leave your cellar to in your will

Derek

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 16:51 Fri 10 Aug 2007

Back home with my tasting database, I can now say that I have never tasted the Graham '85 but have otherwise tasted 15 of the wines on Suckling's list.

Alex