My virgin trip

[Zelandakh]

Hi All,
Despite having been drinking good port for many many years, I have never yet visited Portugal. I'm now able to go and would be immensely grateful for some advice from your good selves.

I'm planning to make this a memorable trip of 3-4 days to coincide with my Father's 80th birthday. Happy to do the tourist stuff but not TOO touristy.

Questions:
Does anyone recommend I go to or specifically avoid any hotels?
Does anyone recommend I use or specifically avoid any airlines?
For a first timer to the area, are there any recommendations of which places offer tastings more towards the vintage than the cooking port? Also, Dad is partially sighted - will that be an issue anywhere?

Really hoping you guys can help a newbie on the forum who has never visited the area. I'm not expecting a full day's guided tour by Johnnie Symington for the planned 4 attendees, but I'm hoping to avoid 10,000 half cut Frenchmen guzzling cheap, white port and hitting on my partner...

Many thanks,
Nick

[KillerB]

They'll all be along soon. We did a fantastic trip at the end of June where the trips could not have been better. I'll find the names of the hotels that we stayed, which were fine, but I can certainly recommend a night at Quinta do Passadouro, to be looked after by the wonderful Ronald and Jet.

We have a few Douro people on here who may also have some recommendations.

[DRT]

Nick,

If you plan on visiting a few lodges in Vila Nova de Gaia you will struggle to find many that will serve you Vintage Port on the tour. Most will give you a white port and a ruby or tawny - but the tours are free so its difficult to complain!

The best option you have is to go to the Graham's lodge. They have a bar that serves various Vintage Ports by the glass. The Croft lodge also used to serve Vintage but you had to buy the bottle 24 hours in advance of your visit so that they could decant it for you. Sandeman used to do a special tasting of 5 ports, including a vintage, for around 12 Euro per head but again you have to book in advance.

Your Dad being partially sighted (so is mine ) shouldn't be too much of a problem other than the fact that most of the cellars have very low lighting. What might be more of a problem is that he is 80. VNG and Oporto are extremely hilly and you work up a good sweat wandering from lodge to lodge. Taylor and Graham are two of the best to see but both are as far up the hill as you can go. Take a taxi!

When are you going out there?

Derek

[RonnieRoots]

Nick,

To make the walk up to the Taylor's lodge a bit more bearable, end your tour with lunch in the Barao the Fladgate restaurant. If the weather is good, a table on the terrace will give you one of the best views of Porto. Moreover the food is good, as is the wine list. There is a good selection of vintage ports, both in half and 0.75 bottles. LadyR and I enjoyed a lovely half bottle of Fonseca Guimaraens 1987 there.

Also, don't forget to visit Vinologia, easily the best port bar in the city. You'll find an astonishing collection of ports there. Mainly small producers, so you're in for a couple of nice surprises!

I always like to visit the Solar do Vinho do Porto, the port wine bar owned by the IVDP. A bit run down for sure, and it's quite common that they only have about half of what they offer on the menu, but still a nice selection of ports, and a stunning view over the Douro towards the Gaia side. It's a bit off the beaten track (next to Parque de Cristal) so it's best to take a taxi there.

In the Douro, not all quintas welcome visitors (forget about visiting most quintas of the big shippers), and some require an appointment. Some that are open without appointment and offer a nice tasting: Quinta de la Rosa (everyday at 11 AM I believe), Quinta do Portal (well equiped tasting room), Quinta de Panascal (including love-it-or-hate-it audio tour, but no high end ports are poured). I'm sure there are others, but these come to mind first as being easiest to visit.

Also, have a look on the website of the Rota do Vinho do Porto to see which other quintas are open to visitors.

My favourite place to sleep is Quinta do Passadouro (they offer nice tastings too), but there are others of course. Do a search on the internet and I'm sure you'll find lots.

Have fun!

[Portman]

I agree with every statement made by Derek and Ronnie. I had lunch recently at the Taylor lodge and not only is the view spectacular, the food is first rate. I had one of the better bacalau's I've had in recent years, a very thick slice of cod crusted with an olive and breadcrumb top. Yummy. My wife had a delicious octupus that was well executed as well. As you may know, Portuguese food is more rustic than elegant, but it can be very good. Taylor also usually offers a vintage port that is sold by the glass, which can be a nice follow on to the Graham port bar which is nearby.

BTW, the Fladgate Group is constructing a high end hotel next to the Taylor lodge in Gaia, no doubt with port lotion massages, shampoo, and other kitschy items. But the location is fantastic and it will be interesting to see if it works. Not sure when it will open.

Have fun in Porto! It is a beautiful city with extremely friendly people. PS - be careful in the area around the cathedral at night, heading toward the river. Lots of serious drug dealing around there with the usual associated petty crime.

Bill

[Zelandakh]

Fantastic. Thank you all for giving your information so freely. I'm going to work up an itinerary. I don't mind paying / booking in advance (though I no speak da lingo at all) to get some tastings to make it a special trip but I don't want to go somewhere that is rubbish.

I'm aiming for 3 days out there in February / March next year though I could delay a bit if it makes sense with a plan to see a couple of good local restaurants, sample some ports, see some views and not overdo the walking as he's going to be 80 and has 2 replacement knees. 20 minutes walking per day is really the maximum.

You guys are great, thank you.

Nick

[DRT]

Nick,

Get to some tastings; get to know us; let us get to know you...and good things could happen

Derek

[Glenn E.]

I echo the above recommendations and will add a restaurant: Tromba Rija. It's on the waterfront in Vila Nova de Gaia about a block west of the Sandeman lodge. Great local cuisine, a casual environment (for Europe), and a very reasonable price.

My 70-year old parents managed the climb up to the Taylor lodge for lunch, but they both still have two working knees. That climb might be a bit much at 80 and using replacements, but it's worth the climb if he can make it.

The Ramos Pinto lodge is another good one to tour because they have converted their old HQ building into a museum that's very nice. It's another block or two west from Tromba Rija.

[g-man]

I hope I'm not too bold in suggesting on behalf of Oscar, but Oscar of http://quevedoportwine.com/ was fantastic company when we met him here in NY.

[oscar quevedo]

G-man, thank you for suggesting Quevedo!

Nick, we are a small family winery located in the center of the Douro valley, in S. João da Pesqueira. We would love to have you and your father here for his memorable 80th anniversary. Please let me know in case you want to come over. We don't have cellars in Gaia, so it makes the visit a little bit more difficult.

Oscar

[Alex Bridgeman]

Nick,

I agree with everything that people have suggested to you so far. But in addition, here are some extra things for you to think about.

Advice item 1 - travel with TAP and not the cheap carriers. TAP are quite civilised (eg. allocated seating) and let you put luggage in the hold for free.

Advice item 2 - Oporto airport is huge. It is at least 20 minutes walk from the plane through to customs. If your father is restricted in his walking ability I would strongly recommend that you make sure TAP are aware of this and arrange for assistance at both ends of the journey to get you father to and from the plane on one of the little golf carts that whiz around.

Advice item 3 - make sure that you know the cost of port in the UK before you travel to Oporto. While there are some fair prices to be found, there are also some eye-watering prices.

Advice item 4 - the Graham's lodge is a great place to visit. There is a shuttle bus that runs from the quay side in Vila Nova de Gaia to the Grahams lodge and back. You might want to use this to save your father's knees.

Advice item 5 - February can be effing cold in the Douro. If you can go in March, then go in March.


If you're in the region for three days, you really have to decide whether you want to have a leisurely three days, or a packed three days. If a leisurely three days then stay in Oporto or Vila Nova de Gaia. It's worth visiting 2-3 lodges over the three days, but more than that and you risk "Lodge Overload". Grahams is nice because they give you a good tour and you can then sit and relax in the wine bar, sipping port for the rest of the day until you decide its time to head off for dinner (NB - Portuguese dinner time starts around 10pm except for tourists) and you can use the mini-bus to get up from and down to the river side. Other lodges I can recommend would be Sandeman (on the quay side), Ramos Pinto and Ferreira. If you visit Sandeman then you can book a range of enhanced tasting flights after the tour to supplement the standard tasting samples of ruby, tawny and white. Take a look at their website for booking details. Others have suggested additional places to visit (Vinologia, Solar do Porto) and restaurants (I didn't enjoy my visit to the Taylor's restaurant, but perhaps I was in too much of a hurry for leisurely Portuguese service). I would add that it's worth trying to schedule in an early morning walk along the Vila Nova de Gaia quay side to see the Barcos Rabellos with their bright sails and memories of the past. The boats are moored facing the bridge, so you have to choose to either take a picture of the pretty sails or a picture of the back of the boats with the bridge behind.

Taxis are plentiful in the busy streets with plenty of cab ranks around but in quieter spots, like close to the lodges, ask someone in the lodge to order a cab for you.

Langauge won't be a problem in the lodges. Many of the staff speak several langauges.

However, if you decide on a busy schedule then plan to travel beyond Oporto and head up to the Douro proper. It is the most beautiful wine region in the world, in my opinion (only Stellenbosch gets close) and is really worth the effort of getting to Pinhao or beyond. The easiest way to travel there is by helicopter, but on the assumption that you are a mortal like the rest of us then the 2 hour train ride is a really enjoyable way to make the trip and offers terrific views of the valley as you go west. Passadouro is a lovely place to stay, but is a taxi ride from Pinhao station. If you want somewhere more convenient (and much more expensive) then consider staying at the Vintage House Hotel, which is right next to the station. From Pinhao, you are a 10 minute cab ride from Sandeman's Quinta do Seixo (a bit touristy, but worth a visit and the first "tourist destination" Quinta in the valley - book ahead and you can get the same enhanced port tasting samples as you can at the lodge) but if you want to see a proper working quinta then please take up Oscar's offer and find a way to visit Quevedo. He and his sister are making jolly decent wines and ports and are among the friendliest of producers in the region. Quevedo's quinta is about 25 minutes cab ride from Pinhao. One possible itinerary would be to travel to Pinhao relatively late on day 1, overnight in Pinhao, visit Seixo and Quevedo on day 2, overnight in Pinhao and return to Oporto on an early train on day 3 to give you the afternoon of day 3 in Oporto. You might need a four day visit to have a relaxed trip that includes a visit to the Douro Valley.

And I should mention that the restaurant DOC is close to Seixo and has a good reputation, although I have never eaten there.

Keep posting your plans and thoughts. I'm not going to be able to travel to the Douro for about 18 months, but I might be able to live vicariously through your trip and trip planning!

Have fun.

[Glenn E.]

And I should mention that the restaurant DOC is close to Seixo and has a good reputation, although I have never eaten there.

I have eaten there, and it is quite good. I found it more Continental than Portuguese even though they serve some Portuguese classics, mostly because it feels trendy and upscale compared to the other restaurants I have eaten at in Portugal.

[Zelandakh]

You guys are great - I'm really pleased I joined here. Already I have a framework of a trip and plenty of recommendations.

My Father can still walk fairly well but walking him for a few miles up hills is going to be too much but I'll factor that in with thoughts of taxis. Having not visited the area at all, I shall be coming back to post to ensure that I get all of the details right for a really memorable trip for the fella.

I'm not looking for an individual guided tour but equally I don't want 50 drunk Americans in front of us throwing back tourist white port. Given his age, I think the leisurely option sounds good and from first look, I rather like the idea of going to see Oscar especially since it is a working Quinta and rather than booking blind, I like the idea of going to see a "friend".

I need to ponder these details and get a working plan and will of course come back so that anyone who wishes to vicariously take a trip would be welcome to hitch a lift on this thread.

Thank you all.

Nick

[Glenn E.]

I'm not looking for an individual guided tour but equally I don't want 50 drunk Americans in front of us throwing back tourist white port.

One of the great things about Portugal is that you never see this. Portugal, at least in the Porto/Douro region, is still "off the beaten path" for most people. Even during harvest (their "prime" tourist season) you generally won't see crowds anywhere, and in March there's a pretty good chance you won't see any other tourists at all.

Enjoy it while you can, though. It's so beautiful and the people are so friendly that it won't remain an open secret for very long.

Pick up just a few words of Portuguese and you'll be fine. It's not that you need them, but it helps break the ice. These are from Rick Steves' Portuguese Phrase Book & Dictionary:Pinhão

English. Portuguese. pronunciation.
Good day. Bom dia. bohn dee-ah.
Do you speak English? Fala inglês ? fah-lah een-glaysh?
I don't understand. Não compreendo. now kohn-pree-ayn-doo.
Please. Por favor. poor fah-vor.
Thank you. Obrigado. oh-bree-gah-doo.
Excuse me. Desculpe. dish-kool-peh.
I'm sorry. (See Excuse me.)
Goodbye. Adeus. ah-deh-oosh.

Just that much will help a lot, though in most places you don't really need it. Just about everyone in Porto and Vila Nova de Gaia speaks far better English than they will admit, so a little phrase book Portuguese will go a long way toward getting people to talk to you.

[DRT]

Another Portuguese phrase that will be essential on your trip is:

(whilst holding up four fingers) Super-Bok, por favor.

[Portman]

Good one DRT.