Irony Corner

[KillerB]

As some of you know I have a bugbear about the use of the word 'Irony', particularly by football pundits who misunderstand the word and Americans who have never experienced it. Here are some examples of irony:

The Ramones had a song called "Do You Remember Rock and Roll Radio?" It was a blast against the way that Rock and Roll had changed from a raw and vibrant new music to pompous, overblown stage shows and mass marketing. Kiss did a cover version.

Alannis Morrisette had a song called "Ironic" with lots of little unfortunate stories, none of which were ironic, except maybe the crashing plane but that's a bit gruesome.

Dyslexia is a really difficult word.

At the High Wycombe tax office, Self-Assessment is in Room 101.

Chris Moyles, the Radio 1 DJ who spends his entire show picking on members of his team, supported the anti-bullying campaign.

Katie Price and Peter Andre asked the press to "respect their privacy" after three years of unceasing, relentless self-publicity of their marriage.

Here is a typical example of not-irony:

"Ironically, three of his four goals on this ground have been scored at this end" - John Motson (paraphrased)

Please park any examples of irony here. Any bad examples will be ridiculed, mercilessly.

[g-man]

Isn't it ironic, that France now has a person who drinks vintage port?

[KillerB]

Isn't it ironic, that France now has a person who drinks vintage port?

No - pure coincidence as said person is not actually French.

[g-man]

Isn't it ironic, that France now has a person who drinks vintage port?

No - pure coincidence as said person is not actually French.

no a coincidence would be that he just happens to not be french.

the above scenario is still ironic.

[KillerB]

Isn't it ironic, that France now has a person who drinks vintage port?

No - pure coincidence as said person is not actually French.

no a coincidence would be that he just happens to not be french.

the above scenario is still ironic.

Nope - no irony:

Non-French person moves to France - it happens, not even coincidence;
Vintage Port drinker moves to France - sad, coincidence of VP drinker moving to non VP drinking country, same could be said of VP drinker in Oman, hardly even coincidence;
Vintage Port drinker moves to France intending to convert French to vintage Port - deluded.

The French drink Port but not VP so even the thing about French and their own wine doesn't hold true. There is simply no irony - there's more irony in a tea-drinker moving to Boston but even that's out of date.

Refer to original post about Americans and irony.

[Glenn E.]

Alannis Morrisette had a song called "Ironic" with lots of little unfortunate stories, none of which were ironic, except maybe the crashing plane but that's a bit gruesome.

My favorite example of irony, because I firmly believe that neither she nor her handlers are smart enough to have conceived of it deliberately. (Had they done so, it wouldn't be ironic.) I'm quite confident that they all thought the verses were examples of irony.

I don't think the crashing plane is ironic, though it would have been if the guy hadn't taken the flight and had been killed when the plane crashed on his house.

[smisse]

The french have a nice saying about irony. They call it "l'arme du faible".

[jdaw1]

I’m generally insufficiently confident of my understanding of the term to describe things as ironic. But I did think ironic the parts that I have coloured green in the following. Please, correctly or incorrectly?

Ex-prostitute Lindi St Clair has spoken about how a near-fatal crash led to her finding God.

Ms St Clair, formerly known as Miss Whiplash after claims of a string of high-profile affairs in the 1980s, was trapped in her upturned car for 22 hours after the crash.

In February, her Jeep Wrangler left the road near Risbury, Herefordshire, and plunged 15ft (4.5m) down an embankment, finishing upturned in water.

Ms St Clair said the near-death experience that led to her turning her life around.

Talking of being trapped in the car she said: "I believe my spirit left my body and I went to the place between life and death.

"I believe that is what changed my life.

"I remember the doctor looking at me and saying no, you are not dead you are alive."

At the same moment, she says, she had a feeling God was telling her she had got her life back and was asking her what she would do with it.

"I have lived a bad life," she said.

"I was vindictive and spiteful and I have been to prison.

"But now, it is the total opposite."

This week, Ms St Clair attended her first confirmation classes at her local church in Herefordshire.

In November, she will take Holy Communion, for the first time.

Now, she is looking for a "nice" companion.

"I would like a companion to live with and share my life with - someone who reads the Bible and is a good Christian," she said.

"I have always met rubbish people - now I'd like someone nice in my life."

[KillerB]

I’m generally insufficiently confident of my understanding of the term to describe things as ironic. But I did think ironic the parts that I have coloured green in the following. Please, correctly or incorrectly?

Sadly, incorrectly. Must try harder.

This poor woman is very aware that she is the problem and that she was one of the rubbish people. That's just a sad story, I wish her the best in turning her life around.

[jdaw1]

Oh. I wondered whether ‟I was vindictive and spiteful and I have been to prison. But now, it is the total opposite” suggested that she had become the sort of nice sweet person who would never publicly bad-mouth all the people she had ever met; this being nicely undermined by ‟I have always met rubbish people”.

[KillerB]

No, that's just a bit of afters. Leopards and all that.

[jdaw1]

OK, then I shall continue my policy of not describing things as ironic.

[smisse]

OK, then I shall continue my policy of not describing things as ironic.

Are you being ironic?

[Alex Bridgeman]

OK, then I shall continue my policy of not describing things as ironic.

Are you being ironic?

I was having a similar thought - I think it is quite ironic, that the thread on irony is not sure what is ironic and what isn't.

Isn't that ironic?

[Glenn E.]

OK, then I shall continue my policy of not describing things as ironic.

Are you being ironic?

I was having a similar thought - I think it is quite ironic, that the thread on irony is not sure what is ironic and what isn't.

Isn't that ironic?

Arguable depending on perspective, but I don't think so.

Part of the difficulty with irony is that it is rather difficult to create it deliberately. Thus my explanation of Alannis Morrisette's song "Ironic." Had the entire song been devoid of irony on purpose, then the name would not have actually been ironic. But since I believe that she and her handlers were clueless then the song actually becomes an example of irony. The fact that they thought the song was full of examples of irony is key.

In this case, since the purpose of the thread is to display and adjudicate alleged examples of irony, I don't think it is ironic that some people who are posting aren't quite sure what is and is not ironic.

Correct, KillerB?

[Alex Bridgeman]

Now I disagree with this Glenn's view. I believe that the simple fact that the meaning of irony is unclear, is ironic in its own right. Thus the need for a thread to discuss what is ironic and what isn't, is ironic.

But the best way to overcome a need for irony is to have another glass of port.

[KillerB]

Irony:

Irony n. The expression of meaning through the use of language signifying the opposite, typically for humorous effect; a state of affairs that appears perversely contrary to what one expects.

The perversity is all important.

Thus a formerly unpleasant person having dig at previous contacts is not ironic, especially when she states that she was formerly horrible.

A Port drinker in France is not perverse as a concept even if they are themselves.

Like Steely but not as refined

It would be ironic if all people understood irony as irony would then disappear in a puff of unperverted logic.

[Alex Bridgeman]

It would be ironic if all people understood irony as irony would then disappear in a puff of unperverted logic.

Which is, I think, the point that I was trying to make above.

The fact that we need a thread to discuss what is irony, is ironic. If the thread wasn't needed, then it wouldn't be ironic.

Perhaps I should start a new thread to discuss the meaning of tautology?

[KillerB]

Perhaps I should start a new thread to discuss the meaning of tautology?

That would be redundant

[Alex Bridgeman]

Perhaps I should start a new thread to discuss the meaning of tautology?

That would be redundant

How ironic.

[KillerB]

Perhaps I should start a new thread to discuss the meaning of tautology?

That would be redundant

How ironic.

Nope - just a word joke.

[DRT]

A real life example, but is it ironic?

I boarded the 07:30 National Express East Coast Line train from Doncaster to London on Tuesday this week and made my way to my usual seat in the Quiet Coach, the published rules of which are:

1. No making or receiving mobile phone calls in this coach. Please go to the vestibule at the end of the coach to talk on the phone.
2. Use all electrical equipment in silent mode.
3. If chatting with fellow passengers, please do so quietly and with consideration
   for others.

The coach was around 30% occupied so I managed to secure a table and four seats all to myself. Result! On the opposite side of the carriage were two ladies of advanced age sitting opposite one another in total silence. As the train pulled out the announcement was made reminding all passangers where the train was going, what catering was available and, most importantly, emphasising the purpose and rules of the Quiet Coach. My BlackBerry was in silent mode, as were those of many others on business trips. I took out my laptop, which is always in silent mode, and booted up for some time. Many others were doing similar things in complete silence.

For the next 30 minutes the only sound I could hear was the very loud conversation of the two elderly ladies discussing how inconsiderate it was that I and many others in the coach were breaking the rules by having our phones and laptops with us

Does this qualify?

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

Yes

[jdaw1]

Irony:

Irony n. The expression of meaning through the use of language signifying the opposite, typically for humorous effect; a state of affairs that appears perversely contrary to what one expects.

The perversity is all important.

Thus a formerly unpleasant person having dig at previous contacts is not ironic, especially when she states that she was formerly horrible.

Even though she has just said that she has become a new nice non-spiteful person? OK, I defer to greater expertise, but it still seems to me to meet the specification (in that, in attempting to say one thing, she has demonstrated its opposite).

[Glenn E.]

Irony:

Irony n. The expression of meaning through the use of language signifying the opposite, typically for humorous effect; a state of affairs that appears perversely contrary to what one expects.

The perversity is all important.

Thus a formerly unpleasant person having dig at previous contacts is not ironic, especially when she states that she was formerly horrible.

Even though she has just said that she has become a new nice non-spiteful person? OK, I defer to greater expertise, but it still seems to me to meet the specification (in that, in attempting to say one thing, she has demonstrated its opposite).

I think that in this case what she has demonstrated is not irony, but that she hasn't actually changed.

I'm also not adept at British colloquialisms, but to me "rubbish people" doesn't sound all that spiteful especially when she's including her (former) self. Would that be similar to "redneck" and "trailer trash" in the US?

[DRT]

I'm also not adept at British colloquialisms, but to me "rubbish people" doesn't sound all that spiteful especially when she's including her (former) self. Would that be similar to "redneck" and "trailer trash" in the US?

I think she is referring to people who live a lifestyle or have personal traits that either did not encourage her to change her ways or positively encouraged her not to.

[KillerB]

"I'm not spiteful but those ba****ds are" is hardly irony, just hypocrisy. "I used to be a ba****d and I mixed with ba****ds but now I'm trying to change my life" is contrite and self-aware.

I don't even think that calling them 'Rubbish' is even particularly spiteful. It's not nice but spite indicates vindictiveness and I don't think she is being vindictive.

[DRT]

A real life example, but is it ironic?

I boarded the 07:30 National Express East Coast Line train from Doncaster to London on Tuesday this week and made my way to my usual seat in the Quiet Coach, the published rules of which are:

1. No making or receiving mobile phone calls in this coach. Please go to the vestibule at the end of the coach to talk on the phone.
2. Use all electrical equipment in silent mode.
3. If chatting with fellow passengers, please do so quietly and with consideration
   for others.

The coach was around 30% occupied so I managed to secure a table and four seats all to myself. Result! On the opposite side of the carriage were two ladies of advanced age sitting opposite one another in total silence. As the train pulled out the announcement was made reminding all passangers where the train was going, what catering was available and, most importantly, emphasising the purpose and rules of the Quiet Coach. My BlackBerry was in silent mode, as were those of many others on business trips. I took out my laptop, which is always in silent mode, and booted up for some time. Many others were doing similar things in complete silence.

For the next 30 minutes the only sound I could hear was the very loud conversation of the two elderly ladies discussing how inconsiderate it was that I and many others in the coach were breaking the rules by having our phones and laptops with us

Does this qualify?

Derek

Yes

Can I please have confirmation from KironymasterB?

[KillerB]

A real life example, but is it ironic?

I boarded the 07:30 National Express East Coast Line train from Doncaster to London on Tuesday this week and made my way to my usual seat in the Quiet Coach, the published rules of which are:

1. No making or receiving mobile phone calls in this coach. Please go to the vestibule at the end of the coach to talk on the phone.
2. Use all electrical equipment in silent mode.
3. If chatting with fellow passengers, please do so quietly and with consideration
   for others.

The coach was around 30% occupied so I managed to secure a table and four seats all to myself. Result! On the opposite side of the carriage were two ladies of advanced age sitting opposite one another in total silence. As the train pulled out the announcement was made reminding all passangers where the train was going, what catering was available and, most importantly, emphasising the purpose and rules of the Quiet Coach. My BlackBerry was in silent mode, as were those of many others on business trips. I took out my laptop, which is always in silent mode, and booted up for some time. Many others were doing similar things in complete silence.

For the next 30 minutes the only sound I could hear was the very loud conversation of the two elderly ladies discussing how inconsiderate it was that I and many others in the coach were breaking the rules by having our phones and laptops with us

Does this qualify?

Derek

Yes

Can I please have confirmation from KironymasterB?

Yes - but little old ladies are normally exempt from irony-meters. An exception applies here just so that we can have another case, albeit a mild one.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Is this ironic?

A man who loves port moves to a place where it is difficult to find good port. He manages to acquire a handful of bottles, but struggles to create even a small cellar.

He invites a friend to visit him, on condition the friend brings 6 bottles of port to add to his cellar. His friend visits and dutifully brings the 6 promised bottles.

Unfortunately, his friend also loves port so that by the end of the weekend they have drunk 8 bottles and the man's cellar is now smaller than it was before the visit.

Is this ironic?

[KillerB]

Is this ironic?

A man who loves port moves to a place where it is difficult to find good port. He manages to acquire a handful of bottles, but struggles to create even a small cellar.

He invites a friend to visit him, on condition the friend brings 6 bottles of port to add to his cellar. His friend visits and dutifully brings the 6 promised bottles.

Unfortunately, his friend also loves port so that by the end of the weekend they have drunk 8 bottles and the man's cellar is now smaller than it was before the visit.

Is this ironic?

I would say that was inevitable

[g-man]

Is this ironic?

A man who loves port moves to a place where it is difficult to find good port. He manages to acquire a handful of bottles, but struggles to create even a small cellar.

He invites a friend to visit him, on condition the friend brings 6 bottles of port to add to his cellar. His friend visits and dutifully brings the 6 promised bottles.

Unfortunately, his friend also loves port so that by the end of the weekend they have drunk 8 bottles and the man's cellar is now smaller than it was before the visit.

Is this ironic?

I would say that was inevitable

is it ironic that it's inevitable?

[KillerB]

Jumping the Shark was a phrase used to give the defining moment when a TV Show went from being good to being bad. It comes from when Fonzie water-jumped a shark in Happy Days. Other JumpThe Shark moments include Scrappy-Doo ruining the wonderful Sccoby-Doo, which is why I went looking for it. The phrase led to a website jumptheshark.com by John Hein, who was there when the phrase was coined, which charted the downfall of telly programmes or left some as 'Never Jumped'. It was a simple site with opinions from the masses and was great. He sold the website in 2006 and it is now a TV listings site with only vague reference to jumping the shark which is based on current programmes determined by paid contributors, it's crap.

Jumptheshark jumped the shark.