Feuerheerd brands

[jdaw1]

From Berry Bros’ price list of October 1907:

Please, what is the difference between the two Feuerheerd brands: ‟Zimbro” and ‟FN.”? (Other than Zimbro having a snazzier name, but being more expensive.)

[RonnieRoots]

I would guess that 'Zimbro' stands for Quinta do Zimbro, but haven't got a clue what 'FN' could mean.

[uncle tom]

I'm wondering if 'FN' is a cask mark, an abbreviation of the word 'FINE' perhaps..?

Given that it's much cheaper; a colheita maybe..??

Tom

[JacobH]

I'm wondering if 'FN' is a cask mark, an abbreviation of the word 'FINE' perhaps..?

Given that it's much cheaper; a colheita maybe..??

The inverted commas around the letters do suggest that even the Wine Society didn't know...

[jdaw1]

I would guess that 'Zimbro' stands for Quinta do Zimbro

Of course. But is that a single-quinta from a second-rank year, or is that Feuerheerd’s usual brand deriving from a primary but not-necessarily-sole ingredient?

[DRT]

From Berry Bros’ price list of October 1907

The inverted commas around the letters do suggest that even the Wine Society didn't know...

...but I wonder whether or not Berry Brothers did?

[DRT]

According to Liddle (Port Quintas of the Douro) Zimbro was purchased by Silva and Cosens in 1888. Prior to that the quinta belonged to "the house of Snrs Barros of Sebrosa". The footnotes in Liddle's book led me to this extract from Vizeteley's Facts about Port and Madeira (p134, published 1880):

Picture2.jpg (64.36 KiB) Viewed 5031 times

I think it is a reasonable conclusion that prior to 1888 Zimbro sold its wines to Feuerheerd.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Very good: thank you. ‟This firm keeps certain of its vintage wines from particular quintas intact” does it? So our declarations database needs to handle separately the various Feuerheerd Quintas. Noted.

[JacobH]

According to Liddle (Port Quintas of the Douro) Zimbro was purchased by Silva and Cosens in 1888. Prior to that the quinta belonged to "the house of Snrs Barros of Sebrosa". The footnotes in Liddle's book led me to this extract from Vizeteley's Facts about Port and Madeira (p134, published 1880)

Of the Quintas mentioned; Quinta Do Bom Retiro is now owned by (or supplies to) Ramos Pinto. But what of Roncão and Zimbro? jdaw1’s database of Quintas attributes Roncao to Robertson but a search of Google throws up hints towards both Borges & Irmão and Noval. And there seems to be little mention of Zimbro anywhere on the Internet, beyond some hints as to it being independent.

[DRT]

Zimbro was sold by Dow in the 1950's but has continued to sell all of its grapes to Dow ever since. As far as I am aware, the grapes are vinified at Bomfim.

[JacobH]

Zimbro was sold by Dow in the 1950's but has continued to sell all of its grapes to Dow ever since. As far as I am aware, the grapes are vinified at Bomfim.

Hmm...Further exploration suggests that some are now being turned into a DOC table-wine and that (perhaps related to a change of owner) a Port was made in 2005.

[Dom Symington]

Zimbro was sold to the Pinto Espanyol's by my family in 1952. We continue to make the Port from the property although they have recently started to make some Douro DOC's from Zimbro as well. (at the time the sale of Zimbro & Sra. da Ribeira enabled the family to remain independent)
Roncão was as you correctly mention a Robertson property who's vintage brand is Rabelo Valente. Robertson's were acquired by Sandeman's shortly after the war. It is now privately owned and may well supply Noval being virtually "off the back" of the Quinta.
Feurheerd were based at Quinta de la Rosa however Clare Feureheerd (married Bergqvist, Sophia's grand-mother) inherited the property privately, hence the change.
In the post-war years many shippers simply closed or merged into some of the larger companies. At the time both Ferreira and Barros acquired quite a number and now periodically release them as a brand or just a vintage.
Bom Retiro is the name used for the general area of the Rio Torto valley with a number of properties using the name or a variation of... The actual Bom Retiro Quinta, a larger part (approx 60%) belongs to Ramos Pinto while a smaller part (approx. 40%) belonged to the Serôdio family and it has been an integral part of Warre's vintage since 1932 and was purchased from the Serôdio heirs by my family a couple of years ago. (3 Serôdio's have or currently still work with my family and one of the next generation has just joined us!)

The period in question is just after phyloxera when many shippers were looking to buy properties in the Douro. It must be remembered that shippers at this time were effectively brokers buying wines from growers, aging, blending and exporting as required and it is more than likely that they would have found/selected specific lots of exceptional wines and offered them as Single Quinta. After all Kopke's Qta. de Roriz was probably the most famous Vintage Port in the mid C.19! ... incidentaly in the late C.19 Kopke was managed by George Hardy Mason, Maurice Symington's (my Grandfather) father-in-law.

It's not easy to use todays Quinta ownership as the basis for late C.19 wines. Additionally the Douro was very much foucused further west than it is today therefore some peoprtires may not even feature in today's records... I'm not sure if this helps...!
Dom Symington

[RonnieRoots]

... I'm not sure if this helps...!

Oh, it absolutely does Dominic. Thanks so much for this very informative insight in the history of quinta ownership.

[jdaw1]

Thank you very much. Lots of helpful history.

If ever ever find enough bottles of Feuerheerd for a vertical, we shall match it with some Rosa.

[Andy Velebil]

Now that's a lot of detailed history you will get nowhere else. Dominic, thanks for the explanation.