The Port Forum Offline #2 - 1st Sep 2007

[DRT]

I have just realised that KillerB does not have an official F-Plan Task. I therefore declare him Assistant Cheese Man

Derek

[jdaw1]

• I will print the tasting mats.
• Conky: I’ll pay for a dozen glasses for me, which afterwards might fall into the possession of Ghandhi. Please order and I’ll refund on arrival.

[RonnieRoots]

I have just realised that KillerB does not have an official F-Plan Task. I therefore declare him Assistant Cheese Man

That's a task well suited for the 4k bloke.

[jdaw1]

Dress code: since the DJ has been nixed, I’m thinking of getting t-shirts, with printed upon them, this picture (caution: graphic wider than your screen). The typefaces match, and the design is meant to echo, that of the placemats.

Is there passionate disagreement?

[Conky]

We'd look a right set of lemons! But I'm up for it. Can you get XXXL? I'm not small!

(One of the reasons I dont mind looking a prize pumpkin, is I've just found out the adjoining neighbours go on their Jollys that day, so noise or bad dress code, will not come back to haunt me! )

Alan

[jdaw1]

XXXL: if that’s what it is called. Or PM me your weight and I’ll tell that to the t-shirt man. Alex B is trim; I’m fifteen stone; Ghhhhhandi is only an edge lighter than me; others? Mixed male sizes?

What size is Debs? (Debs? Deborah? Please instruct.)

At a subsequent tasting with informal dress, you’ll wear the F shirt with pride.

Edit: it’s probably too late for complaints, I’m off to order shirts. One XXXL, three my size (prob XL), two one size down (prob L), and one M for Debs.

[DRT]

Edit: it’s probably too late for complaints, I’m off to order shirts. One XXXL, three my size (prob XL), two one size down (prob L), and one M for Debs.

Alan and I will have to take turns using the XXXL one

Derek

[DRT]

TPF Offline #2 Checklist Update

• Fonseca 1920 - on Death Row, decant 15 minutes before serving
• Fonseca 1963 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1966 - on Death Row, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1970 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1975 - on Death Row, decant at T-4 Hours
• Fonseca 1977 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1980 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1983 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-6 Hours
• Fonseca 1985 - on Death Row, decant at T-24hrs
• Fonseca 1992 - awaiting collection from Tom, decant at T-10 Hours
• Fonseca 2000 - on Death Row, decant at T-24 Hours
• Tatsing Mats Production - Jdaws Task (completed)
• Tasting Mat Delivery - Jdaw's Task
• T-shirts - Jdaw's Task
• Glasses (39 available) - group to decide if more required
• Accomodation - all doss down at Conky's - Derek & Ghandih to bring sleeping bags
• Steaks & BBQ - Conky's Task
• Cheese - Ghandih's Task
• Cheese assistance - KillerB's Task
• Cigars - Derek's Task
• Camera - Derek's Task
• Laptop with 3G/Wireless and http://www.flickr.com account - Derek's Task
• Collecting Jdaw from Airport - Alan's Task
• Visiting Orange with jdaw - Alan's Task
• Lovely Debs Prezzie - Each guest to bring small token of appreciation, including Conky
• Breakfast - Lovely Debs Task

Derek

[Conky]

Spoke to the glasses bloke. Sent him a Email link to show what we wanted. He says they seem to be the same. I'll go and see on Tuesday, and if they are I'll buy 2dozen. Thats hardly any expense and then we'll all have 10 each. I think we should have a 'full placemat', with the opportunity to revisit which ever one you want as the conversation develops. (Can I say, I'm begining to really look forward to it, now its getting close)

Are you sure we have at least 30 already? We need 50 and a couple of spares, to be safe.

Alan

[jdaw1]

Man said t-shirts would take four days. Four hours later he calls me to say they’re done. Collected; and paperwork printed.

May I say, I too am looking forward to this? My taste buds are tingling at the thought of Fonseca from 1963, 1970, 1977 and 1985. And the other years. In fact, I might have to decant something as a warm-up: an athlete of my calibre stays in the best possible form though constant training. Blood, sweat, tears, and vintage port.

Edit: please could my status of “Tasting Mat & T-shirt Man† be changed to “Eagerly anticipating†?

Edit edit: by phone the wife and I have declared it to be an emergency. Decanting in progress.

[DRT]

please could my status of “Tasting Mat & T-shirt Man† be changed to “Eagerly anticipating†?

Done

[DRT]

Are you sure we have at least 30 already? We need 50 and a couple of spares, to be safe.

From previous posts I believe that you have 6, KillerB has 8 and I have 13. Jdaw asked you to buy 12 which means we have 39. If you buy another dozen we will have 51. We have 11 wines and 5 people, so we need 4 more to make up the set.

How much is it for 12 glasses?

Derek

[Conky]

He was saying they were on offer, because no one ever bought them He said £8 something plus vat. I think Julian wanted the fancy expensive ones. Apologies, but I've ignored that one. He's actually linked us to wine glasses. The Port ones are 4 ouncers, and were on another page.
So I'll need 3 dozen. Leave it with me. It'll get a bit panicky on Tuesday, if they are the WRONG sort.

Alan

[DRT]

Alan,

I would suggest you take one of you own port glasses with you to compare. There are lots of examples of glasses which are the same shape as the ones you have but much smaller and not suitable for a tasting.

Is he really asking £8 per dozen to buy or is this to hire?

Derek

[jdaw1]

Is there a picture online of said glasses?

[Conky]

No, there's no pictures. Its a firm called Kitchequip, but I cant find the glass section. I sent him the IVDP link of those glasses with the slight indent in the stem. He replied that those glasses were 4 ounce glasses, like the ones he's selling. He then said people show interest, but then think they are too small for wine. I strongly suspect we've found the right ones.
And yes £8 plus vat. I think he said £9.50 a dozen, but cant be sure. They could be a steal, but I'll only know on Tuesday. He said he only ever bought 4 dozen, and could never shift them.

Alan

[DRT]

Alan,

If they are as described then I am happy to take 12 for £9.50.

In fact, if they are as described I would suggest you buy all 48 and if KillerB doesn't want 12 I will take 24

Derek

[Conky]

Bloody Hell!

So we've gone all round the houses, considered all our options, double checked and re-affirmed.

And we're now back were we started. 3 or 4 dozen at low cost, to be split up the morning after! ARGHH!!!

Alan

[DRT]

I was under the impression that the £40 was a hire cost. Getting to keep enough port glasses to hold a tasting for <£20 is nt what I had expected.

Derek

[jdaw1]

suggest you buy all 48

Presumably that is conditional on timely delivery.

[Conky]

suggest you buy all 48

Presumably that is conditional on timely delivery.

Come on Jdaw1, keep up. Thats why I said I'm going to see them on Tuesday to confirm they are the right ones. If they are, they'll be bought there and then, and transported home.

I suspect that's the effect of that dodgy Noval Nacional you've just had? Derek brought my only experience of Nacional to an Off-Line once, and it was as you described. That was an 87 as well? Shame.

Alan

[Conky]

Just thinking, although there's lots of years we wont be trying, through price or rarity. Aren't we missing the 94? I accept its on the young side, and possibly a touch of infanticide, but wouldn't that have been better than the 2000?
I'm begining to suspect 94 is going to be a 5 star year as it develops. That a discussion for 'Port Topics' but whats the thoughts? If we have to do a youngster, and this is one of the occassions were I agree. The comparison will be fascinating, shouldn't it be 94?

Alan

[DRT]

I had the same thoughts myself but the problem is finding a source at this stage in the game.

Derek

[Ghandih]

Blimey! Postings here are accelerating fast. I think I'm still cheesy, I need a sleeping bag and a pressie, and something is happening with the glasses. If some are bought that I have to pay for and own afterwards, and the price is of the order previously mentioned, that's fine by me.

Am also rather very excited.

[Conky]

On Wine Searcher. Bibendum in London has two bottles for £73. And Derek was there all last week! Arghh!!!

Just out of interest, Crush Wines and Spirits have a half bottle for £60, in New York???

I'm very happy with what we've got, I am just getting a little greedy.

Alan

[jdaw1]

Just thinking, although there's lots of years we wont be trying, through price or rarity. Aren't we missing the 94? I accept its on the young side, and possibly a touch of infanticide, but wouldn't that have been better than the 2000?
I'm begining to suspect 94 is going to be a 5 star year as it develops. That a discussion for 'Port Topics' but whats the thoughts? If we have to do a youngster, and this is one of the occassions were I agree. The comparison will be fascinating, shouldn't it be 94?

1. We have enough.
2. The T-shirts are printed. The T-shirts list the vintages. Therefore the vintages cannot be changed.

[DRT]

I have now taken possession of the bottles from Tom

[jdaw1]

Admit it: you have looked at them lustfully.

[DRT]

Yes, I have, and by the end of the day I will post a photograph here so that you can too

[jdaw1]

The review thread for the Fonseca vertical, and each of the separate TN threads, should each link to each other nicely. Rather than do that on the day, when there will be better uses for drinking time, ∃ review thread and individual TN threads for each of Fonseca 1920, 1963, 1966, 1970, 1975, 1977, 1980, 1983, 1985, 1992, and 2000.

Perhaps post the pictures of the bottles in that review thread?

[DRT]

Jdaw,

I see you have started the review thread and tasting notes. Good planning!

I was hoping to begin posting pictures of the bottles tonight. Should I add them to each individual TN or the review?

Derek

[jdaw1]

Pictures of a line-up of bottles are reviewable; pictures of individuals are TNable.

Please add more information about the re-bottling of the 1920.

[DRT]

Ok. I will try to have all pictures posted before the event, apart from shots of wine in glasses and extracted corks.

Derek

[DRT]

F-Planners,

I think it would amusing to do this tasting blind. We could pour the wines, tasted them all, and then each of us try to guess which is which.

What do you think?

Derek

[Conky]

Thats a great idea, on one big condition.

We should just have a few sips blind. Have a laugh guessing, but then concentrate on each bottle. Having group discussions on its merits, and comparing them, when we know what they are.
I think blind tastings are fun, but such line ups & company, don't come often enough, and I would prefer the classic approach for the important first few hours. Sometimes, when your hopelessly wrong on blind tasting, I think it can inhibit your opinions (Like you dopes at the Crusting Pipe, when AHB had his Cruz example )

After that first few hours, I'll enter that Buffoon stage, where I'll pretend I know more than I do, and find ordinary jokes hilarious!!!

Alan

[jdaw1]

Request: please don’t put “I am Pavlov’s dog† type comments in the review or TN threads (even though I am). Keep the chit-chat in this thread.

I much prefer not blind. I’m nowhere near experienced enough, particularly in Fonseca, to make good guesses, and would find it more educational to know what’s happening. Maybe, just, in Taylor. But for me sighted is much preferred.

[DRT]

As a reward for the patience shown by one of our group tonight I have posted a photograph of the bottles in Jdaw's review thread here

Derek

[jdaw1]

I am salivating. I am bouncing up and down in my chair like a child.

Bigger picture, for those requiring detail.

No complaints about the 1970 fill level.

Note: Editted by DT to reduce picture size. And then by JDAW to add the link to the larger picture.

[Conky]

Excellent!!! Well worth the considerable wait.

What are those bottles in front of those magnificant tiles???

[Conky]

Next important point...

Derek, when you decant them...DON'T YOU DARE!!!

Alan

[DRT]

Next important point...

Derek, when you decant them...DON'T YOU DARE!!!

Alan

Who? Me? - I can't believe you think I would do such a thing

[jdaw1]

Derek, when you decant them...DON'T YOU DARE!!!

That’s not fair to the lad. Derek, when you decant them:

• You then have to drive, so have only the tiniest sample;
• Write a proper note on D+0 colour, nose, and taste, and post in the appropriate threads (’20, ’63, ’66, ’70, ’75, ’77, ’80, ’83, ’85, ’92, ’00);
• And post here to say that the job is safely done and that you are on your way.

[DRT]

Jdaw,

I will happily comply with the above but please note that the 1920 will not be opened until I get there and the 1985 will already be at Conky's.

I do not plan to publish the 0+0 notes here until after everyone has had a chance to taste the wines to ensure I do not influence anyone's judgement.

Derek

[Conky]

Jdaw,
I will happily comply with the above
Derek

Your all heart!!!

I stick by my Post!

Alan

[DRT]

Please note that pictures of capsules and labels have now been taken but will not appear in the TN threads until I have a fast internet connection.

I am currently limited to 56kbs modem speed at home so uploading the picture of the line-up was challenging and frustrating, although not nearly as annoying as Conky's continual whinging by text message that he couldn't see it

For those who have not met Conky yet, please note that he has the patience of a 5 year old on a long car journey - "are we there yet?, are we there yet?, are we there yet?"

Derek

[Conky]

I was going to apologise, until you said it was a picture. The time you took I thought it was an Oil Painting!!!

[DRT]

I thought others might be interested to read the notes of Michael Broadbent on the wines we will be drinking - if nothing else, just to make Jdaw keep bouncing up and down with excitement ...

1920 ****
Broadbent's book has no note on the Fonseca 1920 but has notes from Croft, Graham and Taylor, all of which recieved 4 stars. His general description of the vintage is:

Twenty-three shippers. Small production but high quality, good, ripe, fairly robust wines. Sturdy, and if well kept can still be very good.

Note: Unfortunately, our bottle has a less than perfect history to say the least!

Fonseca 1963 *****
From start (June 1965) to finish a consistently beautiful wine. One of the top '63's and one of the best-ever Fonseca's. Half a dozen notes in the 1990's, but in the mid decade losing colour but still lovely, and a gragrat, elegant, Oporto-bottling in 1998 surviving 'Dark Chocolate and Hazelnut Praline' (oh dear! Why do these American gourmets do this?). Most recently, medium-deep, richly coloured; cinnamon and cress fragrance; still sweet, fairly assertive, tall, shapely, lissom. Drink now-2015

Note: Ours looks like a UK bottling but has no markings to reveal the name of the bottler

Fonseca 1966 *****
Eight notes. Still opaque, rich and magnificant in the 1970's, including a fine Justerini's bottling, and a deeply coloured yet delicate and flowery Harvey's bottling in 1980, a rich ripe Berry Bros in 1985 and other equally lovely bottles either side. Then a glorious bottle in 1990, its fragrance lingering in the glass for five hours. The next two, both coincidentally at Saintsbury Club dinners, in 1994 and 1998. Both wines appeared quite deep for their age; both had a flawless bouquet, crisp, rich, classic. Both were sweet with lovely fleshy texture, fruit, flavour and finish. Might surpass even the '63. Now-2030

Note: The bottle we will be drinking is the Justerini's bottling

Fonseca 1970 ****
Virtually black when young and, in the early 1990's, still very deep, with the plumminess of maturity-in-waiting; Restrained though fruity nose; initially very sweet, now merely sweet, full-bodied, rich, ripe, fleshy, with fruit and grip. A bottle decanted at home at 10:10am noted as very sweet and slightly chocolatey. At 3.45pm after my guests had departed, ripe, liquorice, high-toned. On the palate fairly sweet, rich, positive, lovely, with dry finish. Then, in magnums, at Christie's Port and Cigar dinner at Brooks's, October 2000. Next at Vintners Hall in November 2001; not a big wine, but delicious. And two recent notes, the first in April (2002) at a Past Masters' dinner, disapointing, good flavour but lean, even thin. A month later low-keyed nose but very rich on palate.

Note: Ours is a UK bottling by Morgan Furze & Co

Fonseca 1975 ***
Initially huge, opaque, very sweet, in fact quite a big wine but starting to lose all three elements after a decade. Then four consistent notes all in the same year. Medium-coloured, moderately sweet, though not a top Fonseca, still exhibiting style and texture. A very pleasant end to our annual grouse dinner at Wiltons in Aug 1994. Drink soon.

Fonseca 1977 ****
On 1 January 1980, the London agent invited orders for immediate shippment at £48 per dozen bottles F.O.B., in wooden cases with 'lead capsules, branded corks, labels and chalk marks'. Minimum order five cases. No free storage. Quantity small ... excellent quality.'Very impressive at the opening tasting: deep purple; hard, spirity nose; powerful, well-balanced. At the end of the 1980s still fairly deep, plummy; classic, black cherry fruit nose; very sweet, fairly full-bodied, lovely texture. A great future predicted. However, like a lot of '77s, beginning to lose colour by the mid-1990s, a bit spirity and lean but sweet, with delightful fruit. Showing well at Warren Winiarski's 30th anniversary dinner in the Napa Valley, March 1998. Most recently: sweet, glorious flavour, perfect now. Now-2025

More to follow...

[jdaw1]

I thought others might be interested to read the notes of Michael Broadbent on the wines we will be drinking - if nothing else, just to make Jdaw keep bouncing up and down with excitement

Or bouncing up and down with exasperation at mis-quoting someone else’s correct use of an apostrophe.

Yes, good idea though, mis-quotation aside.

[jdaw1]

Drink now-2015

So we’re drinking this at the earliest date in the drinking window. How rudely impatient of us.

[DRT]

Drink now-2015

So we’re drinking this at the earliest date in the drinking window. How rudely impatient of us.

I think you'll find that:

Drink now-2015