The 1000 finest wines ever made

[Alex Bridgeman]

My add ons would be:

Nacional 97
Dalva Golden White 1952
Warre 66
Cockburn 35
Niepoort 1970 (bulky bottle)
Niepoort Colheita 1863
Quarles Harris 1970

Axel

I consider myself to be such a novice on the topic of colheitas that I will leave a list of the top wood matured ports to someone better equipped for this than I would be. Sadly, that will disqualify the Dalva 1952 and the Niepoort 1863 from nomination, the others I shall include.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Combining all the lists together and liberally adding a few more of my own, I've come up with the following list of the 100 Greatest Ports Ever made ( with minimum age of 10 years today and as judged when drunk today for both future potential and current enjoyability).

So which of these represent the top 10 - and why?

Which of these should be dropped from the list?

You can start by disqualifying these as they are not yet 10 years old...

23 Croft 2003
40 Fonseca 2003
71 Noval 2003
80 Noval Nacional 2003
81 Noval Nacional 2003
100 Taylor 2003
110 Vesuvio 2003

Since there are no rules, I've decided to ignore the "10 years minimum" rule and allow vintage port of any age to be nominated to the list.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I've modified the list to remove wood-aged ports and to reflect comments from various people. Is this now a decent list to try and choose which of these should form our top 10 or are there still ports which people would like to see removed and replaced?


1 Calem White 1933 (is this a vintage or colheita?)
2 Calem 1935
3 Calem 1970
4 Calem Foz 1970
5 Cavadinha 1987
6 Cockburn 1908
7 Cockburn 1912
8 Cockburn 1935
9 Cockburn 1947
10 Cockburn 1955
11 Cockburn 1983
12 Constantino 1941
13 Croft 1917
14 Croft 1920
15 Croft 1924
16 Croft 1927
17 Croft 1945
18 Croft 1948
19 Croft 1955
20 Croft 1960
21 Croft 1963
22 Croft 1991
23 Croft 2003
24 Delaforce 1966
25 Dow 1955
26 Dow 1960
27 Dow 1963
28 Dow 1970
29 Dow 1977
30 Dow 1980
31 Ferreira 1945
32 Ferreira 1963
33 Fonseca 1920
34 Fonseca 1948
35 Fonseca 1963
36 Fonseca 1966
37 Fonseca 1970
38 Fonseca 1977
39 Fonseca 1985
40 Fonseca 1992
41 Fonseca 1994
42 Fonseca 2000
43 Fonseca 2003
44 Fonseca Guimarens 1976
45 Gould Campbell 1977
46 Gould Campell 1970
47 Graham 1955
48 Graham 1963
49 Graham 1966
50 Graham 1970
51 Graham 1977
52 Graham 1980
53 Graham 1983
54 Graham 1985
55 Graham 1991
56 Graham 1994
57 Graham 2000
58 Malvedos 1987
59 Malvedos 1990
60 Morgan 1945
61 Morgan 1991
62 Niepoort 1970
63 Niepoort 1977
64 Niepoort 1985
65 Niepoort 1987
66 Niepoort 2000
67 Niepoort 2003
68 Noval 1931
66 Noval 1963
67 Noval 1966
68 Noval 1967
69 Noval 1997
70 Noval 2000
71 Noval 2003
72 Noval Nacional 1931
73 Noval Nacional 1960
74 Noval Nacional 1963
75 Noval Nacional 1964
76 Noval Nacional 1966
77 Noval Nacional 1994
78 Noval Nacional 1997
79 Noval Nacional 2000
80 Noval Nacional 2003
81 Offley 1963
82 Quarles Harris 1970
83 Quarles Harris 1980
84 Sandeman 1955
85 Sandeman 1963
86 Sandeman 1966
87 Sandeman 1967
88 Sandeman 1970
89 Smith Woodhouse 1947
90 Smith Woodhouse 1970
90 Smith Woodhouse 1977
91 Smith Woodhouse 1994
92 Taylor 1927
93 Taylor 1935
94 Taylor 1948
95 Taylor 1955
96 Taylor 1960
97 Taylor 1963
98 Taylor 1966
99 Taylor 1980
100 Taylor 1992
101 Taylor 1994
102 Taylor 2003
103 Taylor VV 1995
104 Taylor VV 2000
105 Unknown Shipper 1908, bottled by Schofield
106 Vargellas 1964
107 Vargellas 1965
108 Vargellas 1987
109 Vargellas 1991
110 Vargellas 1995
111 Vesuvio 1989
108 Vesuvio 1994
109 Vesuvio 1997
110 Vesuvio 2003
111 Warre 1963
112 Warre 1966
113 Warre 1970
114 Warre 1977
115 Warre 1980

So we need to eliminate the 15 weakest wines from this list and then decide whether there are any missing.

[DRT]

Please add:

Graham's 1985
Morgan 1991

Please remove:

Cruz 1989
Vesuvio 1863 (which is a Colheita)

[Alex Bridgeman]

Vesuvio 1863 (which is a Colheita)

Please say how you know this as I do not agree, but could be wrong

[DRT]

Vesuvio 1863 (which is a Colheita)

Please say how you know this as I do not agree, but could be wrong

Dom Symington told me.

[Chris Doty]

Yeah -- what does he know?!

[mosesbotbol]

Suprised for Delaforce the '66 was the pick, not the '52 Colheita which is out of this world.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Vesuvio 1863 (which is a Colheita)

Please say how you know this as I do not agree, but could be wrong

That's pretty persuasive. I guess most "vintage" ports back then were colheitas. At Roy's 50th birthday bash we had a bottle of this, and it appeared to have been bottled a very long time ago - consistent with it having been bottled pretty close to the vintage date.

[Andy Velebil]

Vesuvio 1863 (which is a Colheita)

Please say how you know this as I do not agree, but could be wrong

By chance I spoke to Rupert last week about this same bottle and he also said it was most likely a Colheita and not a VP.


BTW, you spelled it wrong. The label is spelled with a "z" not an "s" in Vezuvio. (see photo) There is a story behind why and it involves D. Antonio Ferreira making a trip to Italy about the time she purchased the Quinta.

[JacobH]

That's pretty persuasive. I guess most "vintage" ports back then were colheitas. At Roy's 50th birthday bash we had a bottle of this, and it appeared to have been bottled a very long time ago - consistent with it having been bottled pretty close to the vintage date.

Even using modern definition, I wonder how many of us would be able to tell the difference between a 150-year-old VP bottled after 3 years in wood and a 150-year-old colheita bottled after 7 years?

BTW, you spelled it wrong. The label is spelled with a "z" not an "s" in Vezuvio. (see photo) There is a story behind why and it involves D. Antonio Ferreira making a trip to Italy about the time she purchased the Quinta.

Does this mean we can start arguing as to whether there should be an acute accent on the u again?

[mosesbotbol]

I wonder how many of us would be able to tell the difference between a 150-year-old VP bottled after 3 years in wood and a 150-year-old colheita bottled after 7 years?

There should be a difference between the two. One can tell immdiatedly a 1960's bottled 7 years later vs. a 1960's vintage from the same producer quite easily. I've had Colheitas back to the 1920's that were the bottle for long time and everyone could tell which one that was.

[Chris Doty]

The 2000 Vesuvio (and I would say also the 2007 and 2007 Capela) are superior to the 1997.

[Glenn E.]

I wonder how many of us would be able to tell the difference between a 150-year-old VP bottled after 3 years in wood and a 150-year-old colheita bottled after 7 years?

There should be a difference between the two. One can tell immdiatedly a 1960's bottled 7 years later vs. a 1960's vintage from the same producer quite easily. I've had Colheitas back to the 1920's that were the bottle for long time and everyone could tell which one that was.

Yes, but there's a huge difference between a 1960s VP and an 1860s VP. One from the 1960s should still contain tannins and at least some primary fruits. One from the 1860s is likely to be completely tawny, so the extra 4-5 years in wood for a nominal Colheita would probably be exceedingly difficult to perceive. (Which, I think, was Jacob's point.)

[g-man]

I wonder how many of us would be able to tell the difference between a 150-year-old VP bottled after 3 years in wood and a 150-year-old colheita bottled after 7 years?

There should be a difference between the two. One can tell immdiatedly a 1960's bottled 7 years later vs. a 1960's vintage from the same producer quite easily. I've had Colheitas back to the 1920's that were the bottle for long time and everyone could tell which one that was.

Yes, but there's a huge difference between a 1960s VP and an 1860s VP. One from the 1960s should still contain tannins and at least some primary fruits. One from the 1860s is likely to be completely tawny, so the extra 4-5 years in wood for a nominal Colheita would probably be exceedingly difficult to perceive. (Which, I think, was Jacob's point.)

I smell a bet/tasting somewhere.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I've just finished updating the list. The first challenge is to decide which 15 ports to drop. Any suggestions?

[SushiNorth]

I've just finished updating the list. The first challenge is to decide which 15 ports to drop. Any suggestions?

Though Cockburn 1983 is supposedly a very good port, the rate of bottle failure strikes me as being too high to list it as one of the top 100 bottles.

Edit: also, "Taylor" should be "Taylor Fladgate" as Taylor is actually the name of a fortified wine claiming to be port, made in upstate NY.

[RonnieRoots]

Edit: also, "Taylor" should be "Taylor Fladgate" as Taylor is actually the name of a fortified wine claiming to be port, made in upstate NY.

Only in the US, not in the rest of the world.

[MacAllan]

I know that I am a Niepoort guy. And I have not tried many of the ports on the top 100 list.
But not having Ni1945 Ni1955, and the beautiful Colheitas from 1900, 1908, 1912, 1934, 1935 and 1937 on the list is surprising.

And speeking about Tawnys, where is the fabulous Niepoort VV made by the old Eduard Van der Niepoort?

I guess it is a matter of taste

Greetings from
Macallan

[g-man]

I know that I am a Niepoort guy. And I have not tried many of the ports on the top 100 list.
But not having Ni1945 Ni1955, and the beautiful Colheitas from 1900, 1908, 1912, 1934, 1935 and 1937 on the list is surprising.

And speeking about Tawnys, where is the fabulous Niepoort VV made by the old Eduard Van der Niepoort?

I guess it is a matter of taste

Greetings from
Macallan

list is vps
not colheitas =)

if we include colheitas the 74 noval is also stunning
52' Dalva is also a stunner

[Alex Bridgeman]

The list in the book included colheitas as well as VPs, but the list we started to put together was just VPs.

Interesting question though about the relative absence of Niepoort from the book's list. Things like the VV probably should be there; personally I would also have Scion on the list. Perhaps the team who compiled the book hadn't tried the VV at the time the book was published?

[idj123]

Alex, I can't see from the thread but was there a consensus about which 15 to drop from the '100 VPs to drink before you die' list?

[Alex Bridgeman]

We never did reach a consensus over which ones to drop. If I get the chance over Christmas, I might drop my personal 15 to come up with my personal 100.