A pleasant surprise

[PhilW]

Despite the fact that every previous time I've tried an LBV I have felt it wasn't worth it, I bought a bottle of the Croft unfiltered LBV 2004 during the recent offer, just to try. I decanted it on Fri night and drank it last night and was very pleasantly suprised - finally an LBV that I actually enjoyed and didn't wish I hadn't bought!

In fact I was impressed enough that when I saw the offer was still on in our local tesco this morning, I bought another 8 (half) bottles; very good value for money I think Of course now I can no longer claim all the LBV I've ever tried to be rubbish... I am just glad that I kept an open enough mind to try it.

PhilW.

[Andy Velebil]

Phil,

What LBV's have you tried that you didn't like? Just curious as there are some that are pretty darn good, such as Quevedo, Smith Woodhouse, Warre's, Noval (Unfiltered), Vista Allegre, and Quinta do Crasto in certain vintages.

[PhilW]

What LBV's have you tried that you didn't like?

All of them... until Saturday. To be fair though, it's not a huge number - until discovering the port forum earlier this year my port tasting has all been solo experiments, so while I found what I liked (F70,W77) I had found only that each time I'd tried an LBV that I wished I had saved my money for VP instead. I'd probably only tried 5-6 bottles of LBV I would guess, likely to only have been the major houses, at least 2 Taylor and 1 Warre.

Just curious as there are some that are pretty darn good, such as Quevedo, Smith Woodhouse, Warre's, Noval (Unfiltered), Vista Allegre, and Quinta do Crasto in certain vintages.

I will be interested to try others (in time; I also have a delaforce 87 LBV squirrelled away), as well as to try some colheitas (another aspect I have never investigated to date). Although it's not a priority for me, it would be interesting to know whether age, unfiltered/filtered, houses etc may be significant factors (or if I am simply generally not an LBV fan, which was my previous conclusion based on limited experience, though I try to keep an open mind). I expect the fact that the Croft04 was unfiltered may also have helped (pure conjecture however).

At the moment my primary intention is to expand on my VP kowledge and experience, both broader and older, which is an opportunity I am very pleased to have found with TPF tastings and informals; So nice to be able to meet up and share with a like-minded and friendly group.

Phil.

[JacobH]

Phil, it’s certainly worth exploring further. It might be helpful to know that the term ‟LBV” is sometimes thought of as covering two types of Port. The first is the older, continental-style LBV, which is effectively a Vintage Port that is literally just bottled late (four or five years after the harvest, rather than two or three). They tend to be high-quality, unfiltered Ports, which improve in the bottle. The extra years in the barrel simply mean that they mature more quickly. The disadvantage is that they tend to be quite expensive, often not much less than a Single-Quinta Vintage Port or other secondary VP. I think the best example of this style is the Niepoort but it’s pretty expensive, or you can find the Smith Woodhouse in some supermarkets. I’ve also liked Quevedo’s and Churchill’s but they are a bit harder to find.

The other style is the ‟English” LBV which may have been invented by Taylor’s in 1965. This is a filtered Port, not designed to age, often made with slightly weaker grapes (Noval, for example, have only recently used grapes from Quinta do Noval in their LBV according to the people at the Big Fortified Tasting). Of course it probably will still improve for at least 20 years, depending on how mature you like your Port, but this can be a bit more hit-and-miss. The very old ones are usually horrible when we’ve tried them at tastings. Taylor, Graham, Warre, Offley, Sandeman &c. all make them. Of the ones I’ve tried recently, I quite liked the 2006 from Graham and Cockburn; the Taylor’s is usually quite disappointing, despite being available everywhere.

I think Adrian Bridge told us that he wasn’t expecting that Croft LBV to be matured, so although it is unfiltered it is a sort-of half-way-house between the two styles. Although I don’t think it is the best example of the style, for its price you just can’t go wrong, and I’ve been clearing the shelves whenever I’ve seen it on offer!

[PhilW]

Hi Jacob, thanks for the info above, very instructive. I think my past experience with LBV was mostly with bottles I had been bought by other people who knew I liked port, and likely all fell into your second category (definitely at least a couple of Taylors in there) which probably explains why I have felt they weren't worth pursuing, until the recent Croft. One reason I was persuaded to try it was because I saw it was unfiltered, and it sounds like that could well be the key; I'll be very interested to try some of the other unfiltereds that you recommend. I'm intending to obtain a few bottles of Queverdo VP on the back of Tom's Queverdo order next year (as he kindly offered), so I guess I shall include some of their LBV with that request to try as well.

Phil.

[JacobH]

One other thought: if you were last trying these LBVs a few years ago, I wasn’t very impressed with the big shippers’ offerings in the early 2000s (e.g. 2001-3). Some of the 2004s are quite nice but the 2005s and 2006s (which are only just becoming available) seem to be much better; I wonder if there has been a bit of a conscious effort to improve the quality of production.

[DRT]

Subsequent conversation split into new thread: An Annual LBV Horizontal by DRT.

[PhilW]

One other thought: if you were last trying these LBVs a few years ago, I wasn’t very impressed with the big shippers’ offerings in the early 2000s (e.g. 2001-3).

Yes, spot on; it would have been 2000-4/5 at the time; I definitely gave up on LBVs after that until the recent attempt.

[RAYC]

I think the Warre lbvs are very impressive, Smith Woodhouse make a good unfiltered that i'd love to try more of, and i was immensely impressed by the Quevedo 04 and Niepoort + Noval 03 lbvs.

But these all retail at around the £18-20 mark - not cheap and I'd tend to side with Phil and say I'd generally rather shell out an extra £10 for a modest VP with a bit of extra age, or hold out for supermarket offers.

Croft 04 lbv, at not much more than the cost of a pint in London, is of course a bargain.

[SushiNorth]

I think the Warre lbvs are very impressive, Smith Woodhouse make a good unfiltered that i'd love to try more of, and i was immensely impressed by the Quevedo 04 and Niepoort + Noval 03 lbvs.

But these all retail at around the £18-20 mark - not cheap and I'd tend to side with Phil and say I'd generally rather shell out an extra £10 for a modest VP with a bit of extra age, or hold out for supermarket offers.

Croft 04 lbv, at not much more than the cost of a pint in London, is of course a bargain.

I should find a bottle of this Croft 04LBV you speak of, and examine it.

Meanwhile I've had good luck with Smith Woodhouse LBV 1984 (unfiltered), served their 1995 at my wedding (there were no leftovers), and g-man and I have had good luck with Roze's 1994 LBV.

[g-man]

I think the Warre lbvs are very impressive, Smith Woodhouse make a good unfiltered that i'd love to try more of, and i was immensely impressed by the Quevedo 04 and Niepoort + Noval 03 lbvs.

But these all retail at around the £18-20 mark - not cheap and I'd tend to side with Phil and say I'd generally rather shell out an extra £10 for a modest VP with a bit of extra age, or hold out for supermarket offers.

Croft 04 lbv, at not much more than the cost of a pint in London, is of course a bargain.

I should find a bottle of this Croft 04LBV you speak of, and examine it.

Meanwhile I've had good luck with Smith Woodhouse LBV 1984 (unfiltered), served their 1995 at my wedding (there were no leftovers), and g-man and I have had good luck with Roze's 1994 LBV.

18$ for the croft lbv it seems

[Alex Bridgeman]

I think the Warre lbvs are very impressive, Smith Woodhouse make a good unfiltered that i'd love to try more of, and i was immensely impressed by the Quevedo 04 and Niepoort + Noval 03 lbvs.

But these all retail at around the £18-20 mark - not cheap and I'd tend to side with Phil and say I'd generally rather shell out an extra £10 for a modest VP with a bit of extra age, or hold out for supermarket offers.

Croft 04 lbv, at not much more than the cost of a pint in London, is of course a bargain.

I should find a bottle of this Croft 04LBV you speak of, and examine it.

Meanwhile I've had good luck with Smith Woodhouse LBV 1984 (unfiltered), served their 1995 at my wedding (there were no leftovers), and g-man and I have had good luck with Roze's 1994 LBV.

18$ for the croft lbv it seems

When it's on the shelves of Tesco, Croft 2004 LBV sells for around £3 ($4.50) for a half bottle.