Barron Forrester map for sale?

[chrisnomdechy]

Hi,

My father would like to buy an exact copy (original dimensions) of the Baron Forrester Douro map. I have searched all over the internet, but couldn't find a copy anywhere, not even on eBay. Since you all seem to form the elite group of Port enthusiasts, could you perhaps point me to the right direction? I am getting hopeless. It can even be a physical address, a shop somewhere in the world, etc. He just wants the map so badly...


Many thanks for your kind help.

[DRT]

There are at least two versions of the original Forrester's map.

The first is a very large map (3 to 4 metres long) which sits in a glass display cabinet. The only copies of this that I have seen are in shipper's lodges in Gaia or in the Quinta houses in the Douro. Others probably exist in museums/libraries but I have never seen one for sale.

The second is a small version of the original, about 1 metre in length. I own one of these, bound in a copy of Forrester's "Prize Essay on Portugal", published in 1852. No. You can't have it

There is also a modern reproduction, produced by Isaac Oelgart (The Port Lover's Library). I have never seen one but have been reliably informed that these limited edition reproductions are quite stunning. I do not know whether or not Isaac still has any of these for sale but you can contact him at isaacoelgart@gmail.com - There is one available on Amazon.com at an eye-watering price!

Hope this helps.

Derek

[chrisnomdechy]

Thanks for your quick reply, Derek!

I confirmed it, my father wants the XL one (the one that is 3 to 4 metres long). It's going to be a nearly impossible mission, I believe now

Maybe contacting the Port houses directly will produce some results, although I can't imagine any of them wanting to sell such a precious item.

Thanks anyway for all your help.

[JacobH]

Isaac Oelgart’s version is the only reproduction I know about. There’s a PDF with some more details on the IVDP website. It seems he is selling some rolled copies of the map for $600 with a full edition with some other pieces for $1,250. So not an impossible mission, just an expensive one!

I’m not sure where you are based, but there are a few copies in public libraries. I’ve had a look at the one in the British Library (taking up a bank of six mapping tables to view!) and it might be worth calling around the big ones which have imaging departments to see if they might be able to produce a copy for you. With modern technology it is much easier to copy and scan maps then it used to be and it might be possible to do a copy relatively cheaply and easily.

Incidentally, I have a copy of the ‟other” Forrester map, of the wine-region only, on my website, including some reasonably high resolution versions for printing.

[DRT]

I confirmed it, my father wants the XL one (the one that is 3 to 4 metres long). It's going to be a nearly impossible mission, I believe now

Isaac's reproduction is your best (and possibly only) hope.

Maybe contacting the Port houses directly will produce some results, although I can't imagine any of them wanting to sell such a precious item.

That would be a waste of your time and theirs. It would be a bit like sending an email to the Queen asking if she wants to sell the furniture from Buckingham Palace.

Thanks anyway for all your help.

No problem. It is why we are here.

[JacobH]

Maybe contacting the Port houses directly will produce some results, although I can't imagine any of them wanting to sell such a precious item.

That would be a waste of your time and theirs. It would be a bit like sending an email to the Queen asking if she wants to sell the furniture from Buckingham Palace.

I suppose that if you could fine someone out in Portugal with some experience of photographing art, it might be worth writing to various shippers to see if one would let you photograph their copy; they may be happier for all the equipment to be set up than a public library.

[PhilW]

Isaac Oelgart’s version is the only reproduction I know about. There’s a PDF with some more details on the IVDP website. It seems he is selling some rolled copies of the map for $600 with a full edition with some other pieces for $1,250. So not an impossible mission, just an expensive one!

I’m not sure where you are based, but there are a few copies in public libraries. I’ve had a look at the one in the British Library (taking up a bank of six mapping tables to view!) and it might be worth calling around the big ones which have imaging departments to see if they might be able to produce a copy for you. With modern technology it is much easier to copy and scan maps then it used to be and it might be possible to do a copy relatively cheaply and easily.

From the referenced pdf, I note that "The digital images of the maps were captured and prepared by
Pre Tech Color of Hartford, Vermont". IF Isaac Oelgart has now sold all copies of his limited edition run, it might always be worth asking whether the full (I assume) high-resolution digital image could be made available.

[JacobH]

From the referenced pdf, I note that "The digital images of the maps were captured and prepared by
Pre Tech Color of Hartford, Vermont". IF Isaac Oelgart has now sold all copies of his limited edition run, it might always be worth asking whether the full (I assume) high-resolution digital image could be made available.

From my memory of reading a fuller account of how the reproductions were made somewhere else on the web, they were commissions by Isaac Oelgart for this project (he’d apparently tried to arrange a new edition numerous times in the past but the technology was not up to scratch) so I imagine that they / he will not be terribly keen to release the images for other people to make new editions.

[PhilW]

From the referenced pdf, I note that "The digital images of the maps were captured and prepared by
Pre Tech Color of Hartford, Vermont". IF Isaac Oelgart has now sold all copies of his limited edition run, it might always be worth asking whether the full (I assume) high-resolution digital image could be made available.

From my memory of reading a fuller account of how the reproductions were made somewhere else on the web, they were commissions by Isaac Oelgart for this project (he’d apparently tried to arrange a new edition numerous times in the past but the technology was not up to scratch) so I imagine that they / he will not be terribly keen to release the images for other people to make new editions.

Hence my 'IF'; more explicitly, if it were me and I had effectively obtained a full return on my investment in having the digital version created for use in my publication, and if I were not intending to exploit if further, then I might be minded to make it more generally available (potentially only for personal use). If Isaac is still wanting to exploit this further then that would of course be fair enough, but I thought it might be worth asking in case.

[Alex Bridgeman]

There could be an alternative that might be acceptable to your father. Last year, David Eley completed work on a recreation of Baron Forrester's map. I've seen a few of these in the Douro, and they are spectacular. Take a look here for more details.

[RAYC]

There could be an alternative that might be acceptable to your father. Last year, David Eley completed work on a recreation of Baron Forrester's map. I've seen a few of these in the Douro, and they are spectacular. Take a look here for more details.

I must admit, I don't know how you can even compare the two! Maybe my tastes are too old fashioned though!

[Cynthia J]

I dont think there is any full size reproduction of the Forrester map. There are small repro copies of Forrester's maps for sale at the Solar here in Porto - I think they are a metre or two long, and I dont think they are expensive, perhaps €25. They may be available at the IVDP shop too - you might try contacting them at lojaporto@ivdp.pt (IVDP run the Solar, so two birds in one stone there, hopefully). If you get no response by email from them, let me know - ping me a private message here at the Port Forum and I can stop in there to get you an answer and see what's possible - I often am in that neighbourhood! Good luck.

[DRT]

From the referenced pdf, I note that "The digital images of the maps were captured and prepared by
Pre Tech Color of Hartford, Vermont". IF Isaac Oelgart has now sold all copies of his limited edition run, it might always be worth asking whether the full (I assume) high-resolution digital image could be made available.

From my memory of reading a fuller account of how the reproductions were made somewhere else on the web, they were commissions by Isaac Oelgart for this project (he’d apparently tried to arrange a new edition numerous times in the past but the technology was not up to scratch) so I imagine that they / he will not be terribly keen to release the images for other people to make new editions.

Hence my 'IF'; more explicitly, if it were me and I had effectively obtained a full return on my investment in having the digital version created for use in my publication, and if I were not intending to exploit if further, then I might be minded to make it more generally available (potentially only for personal use). If Isaac is still wanting to exploit this further then that would of course be fair enough, but I thought it might be worth asking in case.

Isaac still has more of these to sell, and I think would have more printed if there was a demand for them as they are not a limited edition. However, he does have fewer maps than he did when this thread started

[Paul Symington]

Reading this discussion on the Douro maps, I must say that David Eley’s map called ‘The New Illustrated Map of the Douro’ is a remarkable work. Some have imagined that it is a modern day version of Forrester’s map, but the only similarity is that the river is at the heart of both works.
Forrester’s is a cartographer’s geographic map with some pencil sketches and is of great historical value. Incidentally I suspect that Forrester had help from some soldier map makers who had served in Wellington’s army (or had learnt from these soldiers). Wellington’s men knew the river very well as some of the siege guns that helped to capture Cuidad Rodrigo were brought by sea from Lisbon to Oporto and then up the Douro river in November 1811. Again in 1812 after the battle of Salamanca, young Major William Warre bought the wounded Marshal Beresford down the Douro river to Oporto for treatment to his wounds.
The David Eley map on the other hand, is a collection of wonderful and individual paintings of the Douro’s most famous and beautiful Quintas on the valleys sides of this great river. These are most of the Quintas that are producing some of the region’s greatest wines today. The only connection between the two great works is that they both take the river as the central theme. Both works have different objectives as well as being separated by over 150 years. The David Eley map is a magnificent addition to the history of the Douro and its wines.

[g-man]

that is fantastic Paul and something i'll have to look into!