Mon 24th Sept 2012 - Fonseca vs Warres head to head

[PhilW]

I would very much like to attend, provided there's availability of course. Having never attended one before, it seems like a great way to get my port tasting feet wet. I can sponsor a bottle purchased retail if gaps still exist and of course top up to the overall cost per head of £125, should that be required.

Please let me know.

Thanks
Magnus

Hi Magnus - have sent you a PM.

[PhilW]

An update on planning.

Tom and Magnus have now confirmed, so we're now at least 13 (so just one more space available). On that basis, I'm happy that we can now include the W60 and F60 in the line-up and maintain reasonable cost, which I will finalise soon (sooner if we fill the last spot).

Phil.

[PhilW]

+BMHR, which gives us a full set of attendees.

[PhilW]

I spoke with the Helen at (the premises formerly known as) The Bung Hole last night to confirm arrangements, so all is now in place. We are booked in "the office" (the larger of their rooms downstairs, as used previously) for the tasting, with a separate table in the main room for food.

Ports are being supplied as follows:
AHB: F55
Carl: W66, F85
DRT: W63
JDAW: W70
THRA: W55, F60, F63
PW: W77, W85
RAYC: F66, F77
WS: W60, F70

I have confirmed that the 350g bone-in rib and 800g club steaks are not on the menu but are still available providing we pre-order, cost subject to final confirmation from new management by the end of this week. Expected cost is currently therefore:
£145 = cost per head, including the port, starter, 350g bone-in rib main course, corkage and tip
where main course is optionally upgradeable to 800g club steak for an extra £25.

Fair warning: once I get confirmation from TBH on steak prices, I will be chasing people to confirm they are happy with bone-in rib or wish to upgrade to club steak, and then for money

[jdaw1]

We are booked in "the office" (the larger of their rooms downstairs, as used previously) for the tasting

The Function Room is the larger room; the Office seats at most four.

[Deleted_User_1]

Apologies...I am not able to attend this tasting...any costs incurred will be reimbursed.
Please advise if you wish me to cancel Jancis Robinson.

[JacobH]

Yikes, I didn't know know Cookie was in the business of "canceling" people. We all ought to be careful lest we end up with a horse's head appearing in our beds!

[PhilW]

Attendees and placemats adjusted; Jancis Robinson assumed still attending at this time.
-RLC

[jdaw1]

placemats

Please post a link to the placemats.

[PhilW]

placemats

Please post a link to the placemats.

I will when I've finished fiddling with them...

[jdaw1]

I will when I've finished fiddling with them...

That typically happens within a day of printing. Trust me: I have experience of these matters.

Nonetheless, early in the process I post a link. (Though never more than 13¾ months before the tasting.)

[PhilW]

Placemats updated here.

[jdaw1]

Placemats updated here.

I like the chaining a use of MakePathConnectingGlasses that I had not anticipated. Very good. And how did you get the logo on the page? Please post or PM or email. But eight glasses is very tight on A4, even with INAO glasses, and just too tight for the Bung Hole.

Details:
• One of the external links is still at default value, linking to the example placemat, rather than to your creation.
• Does (Warre) need kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)]? And you’ve been inconsistent about the possessive.

(Note to self: get permission.)

[PhilW]

And how did you get the logo on the page? Please post or PM or email.

Will email the postscript. This will entail admitting I have added one line of code below the line that says "do not modify below here unless you are Julian Wiseman"

But eight glasses is very tight on A4, even with INAO glasses, and just too tight for the Bung Hole.

I really (really) did want to try and keep it to two pages rather than three, to keep the mirror between pages. It is 'only' 7 glasses/page (not 8); is this still too tight?

• One of the external links is still at default value, linking to the example placemat, rather than to your creation.

I thought this was intended as a reference link to your placemat software, rather than to a copy of the specific pdf?

• Does (Warre) need kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)]?

I have already used kerning in the header; kerning does not appear to work within the Circlearrays text - "[ (W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre's) (1955) ]" leads to gross separation of the "W" and "arre's" I think due to separate string spacing when Circlearrays is used; is there additional syntax/brackets that would help with this?

And you’ve been inconsistent about the possessive.

fixed (I believe).

Updated here and emailed to you as .ps file.

[jdaw1]

I have added one line of code below the line that says "do not modify below here unless you are Julian Wiseman"

The bitmaps done splendidly: I must find software that can output the text. Please, what is the name of the format? But your extra line could have been avoided with /PaintBackgroundCode {TypeOfPagesBeingRendered /Glasses eq {PlaceProducerLogo} if} def.

I really (really) did want to try and keep it to two pages rather than three, to keep the mirror between pages. It is 'only' 7 glasses/page (not 8); is this still too tight?

On A4 paper seven and eight are the same radius, which is too small. If you don’t believe me print one page and test with your home glasses.

• One of the external links is still at default value, linking to the example placemat, rather than to your creation.

I thought this was intended as a reference link to your placemat software, rather than to a copy of the specific pdf?

I use it, and intended it to be used for, a link to the latest version. So if somebody copies my/your website, there is still a pointer home.

• Does (Warre) need kerning: [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre)]?

I have already used kerning in the header; kerning does not appear to work within the Circlearrays text - "[ (W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre's) (1955) ]" leads to gross separation of the "W" and "arre's" I think due to separate string spacing when Circlearrays is used; is there additional syntax/brackets that would help with this?

Are you missing one layer of array brackets, with the items of the Warre compound string erroneously being items of the circle array?

Updated here and emailed to you as .ps file.

I have tended to have one name for my placemat files, repeatedly overwritten as updated. You have done versioning. Hmm, a question for elsewhere, but do people need versioning?

[PhilW]

The bitmaps done splendidly: I must find software that can output the text. Please, what is the name of the format?

I used PaintShopPro, with input as 24bpp bmp, and output as 8bpp greyscale .eps (encapsulated postscript). I then copy/pasted the hex data into my own wrapper function. This also worked well using a 24bpp colour .eps which I did initially for the Fonseca logo which was white/gold on black, but this didn't look so good on white sheets, hence conversion to black/grey on white and use as grayscale. An extra note if using this method for other images; the postscript conversion didn't like large ones, I had to resize to small-ish ones to make it work; this could be a stack issue perhaps, or other, I have not investigated further.

But your extra line could have been avoided with /PaintBackgroundCode {TypeOfPagesBeingRendered /Glasses eq {PlaceProducerLogo} if} def.

Good point; I'm already using /PaintBackgroundCode so will put it in there.

I really (really) did want to try and keep it to two pages rather than three, to keep the mirror between pages. It is 'only' 7 glasses/page (not 8); is this still too tight?

On A4 paper seven and eight are the same radius, which is too small. If you don’t believe me print one page and test with your home glasses.

The maximum I can get to (by minimising margins as much as possible) seems to be Radius = 115.863; will try that at home tonight for size.

kerning does not appear to work within the Circlearrays text - "[ (W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre's) (1955) ]" leads to gross separation of the "W" and "arre's" I think due to separate string spacing when Circlearrays is used; is there additional syntax/brackets that would help with this?

Are you missing one layer of array brackets, with the items of the Warre compound string erroneously being items of the circle array?

Could you elaborate please? Perhaps by example to add kerning to the following (since my attempt failed):
/Circlearrays [ [ (Fonseca) (1977) ] [ (Warre's) (1977) ] ] def

Updated here and emailed to you as .ps file.

I have tended to have one name for my placemat files, repeatedly overwritten as updated. You have done versioning. Hmm, a question for elsewhere, but do people need versioning?

Habitual due to software releases etc, where source is under version control, but releases (and release candidates) get revision numbers. Not expected to be part of the postscript.

I have (in trying various things) two more suggestions for the placemat software.

[jdaw1]

Could you elaborate please? Perhaps by example to add kerning to the following (since my attempt failed):
/Circlearrays [ [ (Fonseca) (1977) ] [ (Warre's) (1977) ] ] def

See the parameters for the A Small Horizontal of 1966s on Tuesday 17th April 2012.

Or

Code: Select all

/Circlearrays [
	[  (Fonseca)  (1977)  ] 
	[  [(W) {-0.09 Kern} (arre) /quoteright (s)] (1977)  ]
] def

Observe that the Warre pieces are arrayed together, so making a single item. (Post not tested; I hope OK.)

[jdaw1]

I used PaintShopPro

GraphicConverter can save in EPS, and with some fiddling with the options, and then again with the output text file, it works. Useful: thank you.

[PhilW]

Latest placemats including various tidy-ups, use of newly available parameters and updated to latest version of placement software.

I have increased the circle diameters to the maximum possiblen through sacrifice of margin widths while maintaining a single producer per page. I have tested at home and these fit ISO glasses with ease, and *just* accomodate the Riedels sufficiently. If anyone attending TBH in the near future were able to print a page of these and confirm that this is usable with their glasses it would be appreciated; I realise that an extra such visit to TBH will be a severe trial

[PhilW]

I have had confirmation on food prices, so will now be contacting everyone to confirm choices for pre-ordering. Finalised cost for the evening is £150 per head (slightly higher than previously mentioned due to higher food price) to include the port, starter, 350g bone-in rib main course with chips and choice of sauce, corkage and tip. Two larger steak options are also available at additional cost, either an 800g Club Sirloin at an extra £25, or a 1kg Club sirloin for an extra £45.

I will be contacting all attendees by email/PM and asking for responses by 30th Aug, followed by payments.

[Glenn E.]

or a 1kg Club sirloin for an extra £45.

Don't worry Derek, I'm sure they'll let you order more than one.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[DRT]

or a 1kg Club sirloin for an extra £45.

Don't worry Derek, I'm sure they'll let you order more than one.

I'm being a good boy and going for the 350g Rib

[PhilW]

I'm being a good boy and going for the 350g Rib

@Admin - it would appear that Derek's account has been hacked; please apply normal security procedures

[griff]

As I have already told Phil, Rebecca is unable to make this event as one of us needs to stay at home as a result of obtaining a puppy. Unfortunately for you she has let me rather than her attend

[jdaw1]

My schedule on Mon 24th is now looking vulnerable I cannot be entirely confident of being early. There are tastings on Tue 4th Sept, Tue 11th Sept, and Tue 18th Sept: would it be possible to hand my W70 to somebody at one of these events?

[DRT]

My schedule on Mon 24th is now looking vulnerable I cannot be entirely confident of being early. There are tastings on Tue 4th Sept, Tue 11th Sept, and Tue 18th Sept: would it be possible to hand my W70 to somebody at one of these events?

Yes.

[PhilW]

Hi all,

Some updates on the tasting.

1. Jancis has unfortunately cancelled due to a clash with TV commitments, so will not be attending.

2. At the tasting on Tuesday night we discussed the current numbers/cost of the tasting. With the three people
previously expected but now no longer able to attend (Jancis, Cookie, Griff's wife), we are now
11 people. Previously a 12 bottle-tasting if this was the case, which we increased to
the 14-bottle line-up (including the W60 and F60) because we had enough people.
After much discussion on Tuesday night, the general concensus was that people would still
prefer to include the 1960 vintage in the tasting, and that we should increase the tasting
cost by £10 to cover total costs, rather than pursuing those not attending for funds on this
occaision. As I am not intending to attempt to replace the industry guest, we therefore have
3 spots available - if any of these are taken then I will refund appropriately
to all attendees on the night to reflect the consequent reduced shared cost.

3. I now have everyone's food orders (thank you), so I will be pursing all participants
by email for their contribution dependent upon any port being brought, meal choices etc;
Please therefore expect an email this weekend asking for money.

Phil.

[griff]

Would it be too early to stand the 85 Fonseca and the 66 Warres up? I assume I need to decant prior to the event? If so, what timings please Gentlemen?

Carl

[Alex Bridgeman]

Would it be too early to stand the 85 Fonseca and the 66 Warres up? I assume I need to decant prior to the event? If so, what timings please Gentlemen?

Carl

We should be in a better position to answer the decanting question for the F85 after tomorrow's offline.

It's not too early to stand the two bottles up. The sooner the better - I'll stand mine up when I get home now you've made me think about it.

I would recommend a 4-6 hour decant for the Warre '66 - or as close as other commitments allow.

[griff]

Would it be too early to stand the 85 Fonseca and the 66 Warres up? I assume I need to decant prior to the event? If so, what timings please Gentlemen?

Carl

We should be in a better position to answer the decanting question for the F85 after tomorrow's offline.

It's not too early to stand the two bottles up. The sooner the better - I'll stand mine up when I get home now you've made me think about it.

I would recommend a 4-6 hour decant for the Warre '66 - or as close as other commitments allow.

Thanks for the advice. I look forward to your report on the Fonseca

[jdaw1]

Twenty hours so decanted about 11pm the night before was excellent for the 1985 Fonseca.

[griff]

Twenty hours so decanted about 11pm the night before was excellent for the 1985 Fonseca.

Thanks. Good to hear that the strategy was successful. I shall do similar then.

[PhilW]

Updated placemats, potentially final version (someone please check for errors).

Food orders are all in, payments (almost) all made. For those people supplying bottles (as per first post), please pre-decant and bring as usual; I intend to be at TBH between 5:30/45 to layout placemats and start pre-pour, and we will pour each person's bottles as they arrive with them, hopefully ready for the planned start time of 6:30.

Any problems or issues please let me know; we also have available places if we have anyone else wishing to attend.

Phil.

[jdaw1]

Updated placemats, potentially final version (someone please check for errors).

• Have you tested the margins on your printer? (Too small for mine.)
• Do you care if ‟JDAW” is imperfectly kerned?
• I haven’t carefully followed the planning, so ports and people not checked.

[RAYC]

[*]Do you care if ‟JDAW” is imperfectly kerned?

Although Julian has been careful to phrase this as a "question", i suspect it wasn't strictly intended as such....!

[PhilW]

• Have you tested the margins on your printer? (Too small for mine.)
• Do you care if ‟JDAW” is imperfectly kerned?
• I haven’t carefully followed the planning, so ports and people not checked.

Thank you for checking.
Placemats now updated for kerning.
Margins fit for printing on my printer (tested) and I will print on Monday morning.

[DRT]

The Warre's 1963 has been standing for two weeks. I can do one of two things tomorrow:

1. Double decant at 08:30 before I drive to London.

2. Drive to London and decant at some point in the afternoon, probably late afternoon.

Unless anyone seriously objects I plan to do 1.

Objections?

[PhilW]

The Warre's 1963 has been standing for two weeks. I can do one of two things tomorrow:

1. Double decant at 08:30 before I drive to London.

2. Drive to London and decant at some point in the afternoon, probably late afternoon.

Unless anyone seriously objects I plan to do 1.

Objections?

Sounds fine to me; I'd go with (1) myself. I plan to decant the W77 tomorrow am, and was considering decanting the W85 tonight to give it a similar decant to the F85...

[Alex Bridgeman]

The F55 will be decanted around 6:30am tomorrow. It's likely to get shaken up too much to be easily decanted if I travel with it before decanting.

[griff]

F85 decanted: Looks in fine condition indeed.
Will decant W66 tomorrow before catching the train.

[DRT]

W63 decanted and looking good.

The bottom half of the cork broke and mostly disintegrated into crumbs but the top half clearly has the word "Sworder" branded on it so it seems this is a Mayor & Sworder bottling.

[WS1]

Hi,

W60 and F70 decanted in the period between 4:30AM and 5:00AM. F70 (Corney and Barrow botteling) was glorious despite I could not identify any branding on the cork. Tasted and felt though as a F70 and I got nearly sidetracked stopping drinking coffee and drink F70 instead
W60 a bit more closed and hot; did not jump at me as the F70 did. But with air it got sweeter and smoother and more similar to the bt I brought to an offline before (english botteling shipped to the US and then reimported). Should be good. Both bts now at work in the fridge. Remains of corks I have with me for further inspection of the team later at the tasting.

regards

WS1

[uncle tom]

Just opened the F63, and...

..it's a bloody forgery!

- a blatent but well crafted forgery... - embossed wax capsule covering a foil and T-stopper. The wine inside is an old ruby..

Fortunately the stash came from Christies, so I should have some redress; although it was bought a long time ago..

Will extract a bottle from a different stash and decant for tonight..

[griff]

W66 just decanted. A little spiky at the moment. Sounds like the W60 perhaps? Shall bring the corks as well.

[griff]

Just opened the F63, and...

..it's a bloody forgery!

- a blatent but well crafted forgery... - embossed wax capsule covering a foil and T-stopper. The wine inside is an old ruby..

Fortunately the stash came from Christies, so I should have some redress; although it was bought a long time ago..

Will extract a bottle from a different stash and decant for tonight..

Oh dear! How many years ago? Didn't reaslise port was forged that blatantly. More vintage/house swapping.

[uncle tom]

Oh dear! How many years ago? Didn't reaslise port was forged that blatantly. More vintage/house swapping.

A nine bottle stash bought in May '07.

Aside from the odd bottle that has suffered some 'strategic' label damage, this is the first conspicuous and deliberate port forgery I've come across.

[RAYC]

Oh dear! How many years ago? Didn't reaslise port was forged that blatantly. More vintage/house swapping.

A nine bottle stash bought in May '07.

Aside from the odd bottle that has suffered some 'strategic' label damage, this is the first conspicuous and deliberate port forgery I've come across.

Can you bring the forgery (and - if you still have it / don't need it for Christie's - the contents) for us to see tonight? Am intrigued!

[uncle tom]

Genuine F63 and F60 now decanted - looking good!

[uncle tom]

Can you bring the forgery (and - if you still have it / don't need it for Christie's - the contents) for us to see tonight? Am intrigued!

Will bring another bottle from the stash, and the opened one..

[DRT]

W63 is now safely in London.

Whilst driving for four hours through the light drizzle we have been experiencing today I thought up a scoring system that we might want to try this evening.

1. The Fonseca and Warre from each vintage are tasted side by side.

2. Each person has 6 points to allocate between each vintage pair. Fractions are allowed. All 6 points must be allocated. (e.g. F60 3.5pts, W60 2.5pts, or; F60 1pt, W60 5pts, etc.)

3. Scores are noted by each person as we work through the vintages but are not collected until the end. This allows glasses to be re-visited and score adjusted before being declared.

4. After everything has been tasted the scores are collected and we decide which Shipper won the parallel vertical.

5. Separately, we vote for WOTN in the normal manner.

Thoughts?