Question about a Dow's 1985 VP bottle

[ARS]

This afternoon I came across a bottle of Dow's 1985 vintage port at a local wine store for $58 - what seems to me to be a great price. It was the last bottle on the shelf and while they were searching for more downstairs (it was in fact the last one), I noticed that the bottle appeared brand new, especially for something bottled in 1987. I asked where they acquired it and was told it came direct from the distributor.

Now that I am home, I can see that the label is in fact different from the other bottle of Dow's 85 currently residing in my closet. The typeface is significantly narrower. The glass bottle itself lacks the DOW 1985 imprint. The top of the cork also lacks any imprint. Finally, the number on top jumped out at me as it is 000977 - I don't recall seeing zeroes like that before.

It seems odd to me, but I'm new enough to port to know that there might be some good reasons for all this that I'm not aware of.

So, did I get a good deal or is there something wrong with my bottle?

[RAYC]

Personally I wouldn't worry - although Dow 1985 was bottled in 1987 and will have probably first reached the shelves at the end of 1987, producers (in this case the Symingtons) also keep bottles back for release in later years (often referred to as "ex-cellars" in catalogues).

A lot of producers will store the bottles intended for "ex-cellar" release in unlabelled form, meaning that new (more modern) labels are applied when the bottles are finally released.

In addition, the bottle will often be cleaned/polished, and some recent Symington ex-cellar releases have even been re-corked (so don't be surprised if, on opening, your cork does not look like it has been in there for 25 years!).

If you would like more reassurance, do post a photo!

[jdaw1]

As RAYC says, old wine, old bottle, new label.

[ARS]

Thanks for the reassurance and allowing me to feel good about my purchase. Happy New Year to you both!

[jdaw1]

A long decant helps D85. Don’t pop-and-pour: decant the night before.

[Alex Bridgeman]

If you can post a picture of the bottle, that would be great.

While I agree with both the comments above, I am slightly surprised by the fact that there is no Dow 1985 plaque moulded into the bottle. I would have expected all of the bottles used for that particular vintage to have been identical. Interesting...

[RAYC]

While I agree with both the comments above, I am slightly surprised by the fact that there is no Dow 1985 plaque moulded into the bottle.

Do you know whether any of your Dow 85s (if you have any) have a plaque?

By chance, i currently have 2 bottles of Dow 85 from different sources in my wine fridge. Neither has a plaque. I am fully confident that they are genuine!

In contrast, i also have a bottle of each of Dow 80 and Dow 83 in my wine fridge: both have a plaque...

[Alex Bridgeman]

While I agree with both the comments above, I am slightly surprised by the fact that there is no Dow 1985 plaque moulded into the bottle.

Do you know whether any of your Dow 85s (if you have any) have a plaque?

By chance, i currently have 2 bottles of Dow 85 from different sources in my wine fridge. Neither has a plaque. I am fully confident that they are genuine!

In contrast, i also have a bottle of each of Dow 80 and Dow 83 in my wine fridge: both have a plaque...

I might well be confusing vintages. I have one (very inconveniently placed) bottle at home that I will take a look at over the next few days and see whether it has the plaque or not.

[mosesbotbol]

1985 Dow is far from being ready to drink IMO...


What Symington vintages have been recorked by them are available?

[RAYC]

1985 Dow is far from being ready to drink IMO...


What Symington vintages have been recorked by them are available?

In terms of bottles that have been re-corked:

i) Purchased in the last 18 months:

- GC 66
- Graham 70
- SW 77
- GC 77
- Malvedos 79

ii) Opened in the last 18 months
- Malvedos 65
- Tesco b.o.b. 94

I haven't opened the Dow 80 or Graham 94 that i have purchased ex-cellars, so don't know about those.

[ARS]

I hopefully have successfully attached two pictures of my newly purchased and previously purchased Dow 85. Thanks.

[g-man]

those look like the new bottles I got for the dow 85

premium port wines is the symington's main importer in the US.

you could always just drop them a note and ask "Why do the new bottles have brand spanking new labels"

they are actually quite approachable. (I'm a distributor here in NY and have talked with them on previous occasions about unrelated issues)

[uncle tom]

I would have expected all of the bottles used for that particular vintage to have been identical. Interesting...

No, they're not, for some reason..

All the D85's that came to UK at release were in totally opaque black bottles, but the ex cellar's stock in Gaia is in light green bottles.

I can't remember if the Gaia bottles have plaques or not..

[DRT]

I would have expected all of the bottles used for that particular vintage to have been identical. Interesting...

No, they're not, for some reason..

I think the reason was that this was only the fifth generally declared vintage to be entirely bottled in Portugal and only 10 years from the first. So much for 2-3 per decade!

The Portuguese market was (and still is) bottling for many different markets and, at that time, probably had very restricted supply and very much less focus on brand appearance. Why would they care if some 1985 vintage was in slightly different bottles to the rest? The answer is, they wouldn't.

[Andy Velebil]

What I have been told by more than one Port producer is glass bottles were extremely hard to get in Portugal, in the amount one needed. So often the Port producers had to source bottles from more than one glass bottle producer. This was the reason why you could get different bottles for the same vintage which were all "Oporto bottled." This was a significant issue for a time after the regulation was changed requiring all Port to be Oporto bottled.

[RAYC]

Plus presumably you need to have your bottles with "Dow 1985" plaques made a while in advance of bottling, before you know the final size of your bottling run.

Since there's presumably not much use for "Dow 1985" bottles that have not been filled with Dow 1985 port, you'd be nervous about over-ordering!

[uncle tom]

glass bottles were extremely hard to get in Portugal

Still are, I have been told. The glass manufacturers are averse to small runs, and now charge hefty tooling fees for mould changes - which is why you don't see the vintage date moulded into the glass any more.

If the port trade followed the example of the French wine regions and standardised their bottle design, the glass manufacturers would be able to make port bottles in quantities that better suited their modern automated equipment, reducing the cost to the producers. It would also make it possible to have a much more efficient distribution system, removing the need for stockpiles of bottles in the lodges.

Moreover, I don't think it would hurt the port 'brand' if all the products on the supermarket shelf were in the same distinctive bottles.