Offline at Simon Lisle's House

Post by **DRT** » 08:34 Sun 21 Oct 2007

Here are some pictures of what we had last night:

Can anyone tell what the 4th bottle is?

Post by **DRT** » 12:16 Sun 21 Oct 2007

I spent a very enjoyable evening with Simon and his wife Cath and shared some very nice port. The wine of the night for me was the Royal Oporto Garrafiera 1917. The first Garrafiera that either Simon and I have had and a truely wonderful experience drinking it. Very fresh for such an old wine with beautiful red colour delicate smell and very smooth. It was more like a 50 year old VP than an old tawny or Colhieta.

Of the others, my vote goes to the Croft 63. Very elegant and drinking beautifully now. Close behind was the 4th bottle in the pictures above. This was a very good bottle of this wine which has mostly disappointed me on previous occasions.

Next was the Martinez 85. A very nice wine with time ahead of it but not in the same league as the top 3.

Bringing up the rear was the Burmester 1900. To explain, this would be the equivalent of 5th place in a Miss World contest

this was a Colhieta, but was labelled as a late bottled Reserva. Very typical of an old colhieta and an extremely pleasurable experience to drink such a rare and unusual bottle.

A big thanks to Simon for supplying the 1917, 1900 and the 4th bottle. Thanks also to Simon and Cath for their hospitality and to 3 year old Issie for providing the entertainment and all those gorgeous smiles.

Derek

PS: did you notice that I didn't mention the Rugby World Cup

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 17:23 Sun 21 Oct 2007

Derek,

Just a note which I am sure that you are aware of - the tem Garrafiera only gained a legal meaning relatively recently (I am not sure when). Prior to the legal definition, it simply meant "an old wine". Your 1917 could have been vintage or colheita (or what we know as a garrafeira today), but was most likely a colheita wine. Did it have much sediment when it was decanted? Was this large, well settled, vintage style sediment or the mass of finer sludge associated with a colheita that has been in the bottle for ages?

I'm also up for making a fool of myself so will hazard a guess at the 4th bottle. It had no sello, say was either English bottled before 1970 or was Portuguese bottled before 1930-something (I can't remember exactly when the IVP started the sello garantia scheme). The bottle doesn't look massively old so I would guess that it is an English bottled port from the period 1948-1968. Knowing Derek's birth year, perhaps this is a 1965 vintage port? But I don't think so. Since I have to commit to something, I shall guess that this was a 1952 Warre.

Alex

Andy Velebil · Post by **Andy Velebil** » 20:28 Sun 21 Oct 2007

I will send an email to a contact at Bermester and see if she can shed any light on it.

As for the Garrafiera, I would assume it was a colheita as it has an old style selo de guarante on it, as if it was a vintage, it would have been bottled 2-3 years later and before the selo existed.

Post by **DRT** » 22:41 Sun 21 Oct 2007

Interesting comments about the Garrafiera 1917. Simon is having PC trouble at the moment so hopefully he will chip in soon with some history on the bottle.

On the mystery 4th bottle, I thought AHB would have guessed it from my description. After all, he supplied me with the best bottle of this particular wine that I have ever had and this bottle was close to that but not quite as good. This is a wine that is generally thought to be over the hill and fading. This is the second example I have seen that bucks that trend.

Care to guess again AHB?

Derek

Post by **Alex Bridgeman** » 19:49 Tue 23 Oct 2007

Given the extra clue, could this be the Sandeman 1963? English bottled and quite lovely when a good bottle is found.

Is this the wine? If so, I don't feel too foolish as this falls within the range that I estimated from the look of the bottle.

Alex

Post by **DRT** » 21:41 Tue 23 Oct 2007

I knew you would get there eventually Mr B. This was indeed another example of what Sandeman 63 can deliver. I wonder why there is so much bottle variation with this particular wine. I can recall having 4 in the past 3 years. 2 of these were very old and tired and 2 were extremely good with lots of life left in them.

Derek

Conky · Post by **Conky** » 22:25 Tue 23 Oct 2007

You could have thrown a picture of you and simon in!

Or at least found his dodgey tiles for the background. I'm thinking of buying some dodgey ones for my next photoshoot, where did you get yours?

Simon Lisle · Post by **Simon Lisle** » 17:04 Wed 24 Oct 2007

I would like to thank Derek for providing the Croft and Martinez the latter I had two glasses in the morning after cath got up to ease my spinning head which were very nice but made it spin faster

.The Garrafeira was also my favourite medium bodied obviously aged in glass and I think Derek would agree there was none of the woody nutty taste as you would from a Colheita.I would say bottled in the 70's there maybe a bottling date on that bottle Derek has it,I know the Garrafeira National shop were selling some as I checked up when I bought but not now.Shop price a ridiculous £300.The Burmester looks 70's also.The Croft and Sandemans came joint second the Croft would have edged it if I had not had the Croft 60 a week or two earlier which I would have been hard pressed to tell the two apart.The Croft was elegance while the Sandemans had more punch but lacked the finer touch of the Croft.Lastly the Burmester which was very syrupy and condensed woody and nutty not my favourite style of port.I am told to leave the computer as my wife is hovering and it is her birthday present as mine is needing a reinstall.