Of cheese..

[uncle tom]

When the concept of pairing port with cheese is discussed, I am in the front line when it comes to denouncing Stilton as a suitable match - Tesco ruby excepted.. maybe...!

But I am not impartial to a wedge or two, and was recently very impressed by a small gift of mature 'ethnic' French brie.

Looking at the port shelves of the supermarkets, I sense a certain similarity with the cheese offerings at the deli counter - all a bit too young and immature - and mass market.

Is there a secret world of cheese enthusiasts, where rare and unpasteurised rounds of some age are discreetly traded and enjoyed?

I tried Googling for a forum, but to no avail..

Tom

[jdaw1]

Paxton & Whitfield?

[Alex Bridgeman]

I rarely mix good port and good cheese, preferring both in their own company. However, I do enjoy good cheese (pasteurised or raw milk based) and particularly the soft cheeses along the lines of Brie or Camembert.

In general, I thank my lucky stars that it does not take as long to mature a round of Brie as it does a vintage port. I frequently buy a portion of cheese and then put it away with the wine to mature for anything up to 6-8 weeks (in an airtight container!). However, there are notable exceptions for sources of good cheese.

Clearly there are the independent cheese merchants like Paxton & Whitfield or Neal's Yard and the very upmarket stores in London (Harrods sell Serra D'Estrella), but Costco often offer quarter rounds of Brie made from raw milk with some significant maturity, Waitrose also often have mature Brie on their deli counter, and Morrisons frequently don't sell their soft cheeses before the sell by date and so dump them on the discount shelf within 24 hours of the expiry date.

The other place that I always buy cheese when I am in the region, is the farm where the cheeses are made. That way you can have a sensible conversation with the cheesemaker and often end up with a relationship that allows you to buy directly and pick up cheeses that are often only sold locally. Its well worth doing some research by visiting local food fairs and building up a network of contacts which you can follow up on when travelling around the UK.

But I don't know of any cheese forums - but then I haven't tried to find any!

Alex

[KillerB]

We can make a cheese forum!

I am also not sure about the pairing of Stilton and Port but some combinations work. I think that tawnies go better than rubies, but that's just me.

[RonnieRoots]

Not a big fan of Stilton and port either. The stilton is usually overpowering the port. It can work with young, dense rubies, like a young VP or a crusted port.

With aged VP I like what we call 'spoon'cheeses, like Queijo da Serra d'Estrella, Azeitão or other runny friends. With tawnies I usually prefer harder cheeses, like an aged Parmesan or Manchego.

[RonnieRoots]

BTW, I'm all in favour of creating a cheese forum!

[Conky]

I hate the smelly stuff. But at a previous Off-Line, Al-K and Ghandi seemed to know one smelly sock from another!

Alan

[Luc]

Alan , do you mean to say that during Offlines ( accross the Atlantic ) , the participants engage in a smell my socks contest . . .

[uncle tom]

Thanks for the Paxton link Julian - while they seem to be the Berry Bros of cheese, it's a rather 'safe' range - and all at top dollar!

I can't help feeling that there are a lot of small time cheesemakers out there who have to keep their heads down for fear of hellfire and damnation from the likes of DEFRA and the EU.

Could we launch a small forum site with banners that encourage small producers to stick their heads above the parapet, and for consumers to buy whole rounds, divide and share?

Tom

[mosesbotbol]

Stilton is one of the worst pairings with port in my opinion. I would like to see someone eat Stilton with port for more than a bite and look me in the eye and say that it is a perfect pairing.

Monchego, Parmaesan, Asiago are much better pairings. Stilton is too rich and the port does not cut the richness of it at all. I find the "spoon cheeses" to be too rich as well.

[Ghandih]

Been kicked by JDAW to say something, and doing so in stead of the wife, who is the family cheese officinado [can someone help with word gender?].

I start looking for cheesy info at http://www.thecheeseweb.com, set up by Juliet Harbutt who also organises the annual British Cheese Festival and Awards. If she disappoints, the second port [ha ha] of call is http://www.thecheesesociety.co.uk.

On the subject of port and cheese, I agree that stilton is a bit imposing for a vintage port, though naff port and stilton are a pleasant combination. Folk talk about port and stilton as if they go together, in the same way they talk about 'cheese and wine' parties. The best drink I've found to accompany cheese is beer, by which I mean real ale. At the last Cheese Festival I attended, we went to a number of tastings, and the 'beer and cheese' session definitely outperformed the various 'cheese and wine' combos, even though one of the latter was a Fonseca and cheese tasting, which was nice in its own way, of course. I've an inkling that 'cider and cheese' may be even better than 'ale and cheese', but not very keen on drinking cider routinely.

As far as hunting down the artisans goes, I have one simple and stunning recommendation for you all, and that is Waterloo, as made by Anne Wigmore (yes, she does Wigmore, too) of Village Maid just outside Reading. Waterloo is a distinct cousin of Camembert, with a lovely rich taste but none of the stink. It is (I troth) quite simply the Best Cheese There Is.

It merits a story:
JDAW commissioned the missus to provide cheese for his wedding (in a chateau in France), and she laid on a range of cheeses, many of them English, which we brought over in the car (the smoked cheese stank it out for weeks afterwards).
I will never forget the head waiter inspecting the English cheeses with some disdain as we tried to tell him how and when we wanted him to serve them. He picked up the Waterloo and exclaimed with a mixed of perplexion and disgust (and in a triffic Allo Allo accent), "Waterloo! You bring dees [this] to France?!". Apologies to any French forum folk, but it was a very funny moment. And the cheese is sublime.

Final thing on this for now: supermarkets are blighted by two repeated errors. The first is the '10 items or less' sign, which (need I say) ought read '10 items or fewer'. The second is the typo on their cheeses; when they say 'use before', it should read 'not before'. And add a fortnight, to be safe, with the cheese kept at cellar temperatures.

I could write so much more, but time is against me.


Ghandih

[Luc]

Been kicked by JDAW to say something, and doing so in stead of the wife, who is the family cheese officinado [can someone help with word gender?].

I start looking for cheesy info at http://www.thecheeseweb.com, set up by Juliet Harbutt who also organises the annual British Cheese Festival and Awards. If she disappoints, the second port [ha ha] of call is http://www.thecheesesociety.co.uk.

On the subject of port and cheese, I agree that stilton is a bit imposing for a vintage port, though naff port and stilton are a pleasant combination. Folk talk about port and stilton as if they go together, in the same way they talk about 'cheese and wine' parties. The best drink I've found to accompany cheese is beer, by which I mean real ale. At the last Cheese Festival I attended, we went to a number of tastings, and the 'beer and cheese' session definitely outperformed the various 'cheese and wine' combos, even though one of the latter was a Fonseca and cheese tasting, which was nice in its own way, of course. I've an inkling that 'cider and cheese' may be even better than 'ale and cheese', but not very keen on drinking cider routinely.

As far as hunting down the artisans goes, I have one simple and stunning recommendation for you all, and that is Waterloo, as made by Anne Wigmore (yes, she does Wigmore, too) of Village Maid just outside Reading. Waterloo is a distinct cousin of Camembert, with a lovely rich taste but none of the stink. It is (I troth) quite simply the Best Cheese There Is.

It merits a story:
JDAW commissioned the missus to provide cheese for his wedding (in a chateau in France), and she laid on a range of cheeses, many of them English, which we brought over in the car (the smoked cheese stank it out for weeks afterwards).
I will never forget the head waiter inspecting the English cheeses with some disdain as we tried to tell him how and when we wanted him to serve them. He picked up the Waterloo and exclaimed with a mixed of perplexion and disgust (and in a triffic Allo Allo accent), "Waterloo! You bring dees [this] to France?!". Apologies to any French forum folk, but it was a very funny moment. And the cheese is sublime.

Final thing on this for now: supermarkets are blighted by two repeated errors. The first is the '10 items or less' sign, which (need I say) ought read '10 items or fewer'. The second is the typo on their cheeses; when they say 'use before', it should read 'not before'. And add a fortnight, to be safe, with the cheese kept at cellar temperatures.

I could write so much more, but time is against me.


Ghandih

I guess you had to be there . . .
Hell , I think the anecdote is hilarious !!

[KillerB]

Aficionada

pronounced a-fishy-on-ar-da

as in there is a salmon atop of one's father

[Luc]

I'm partial to Pacific salmon .

[jdaw1]

Simon: it might that some here are weighing the merits of a cheese forum, much like The Port Forum, except, as some will have guessed, with cheese instead of port. Do you think the Mrs would be willing to be a resident guru on such a thing? Would she be willing to advise on structure (look at TPF’s front page: the cheesonauts should also have a §s for Site Stuff, Meaningless Drivel and Introductions, but how should the cheesey areas be split?)? And do you or she know enough other cheesetastic people to whom this would be welcome?

[Alex Bridgeman]

I don't have time to say much except - Simon, shhh about the Waterloo (and the Barkham Blue). Its only made in limited quantities and it is certainly one of the best cheeses that I have ever come across - but lets keep it our secret, like the Gould Campbell '77.

[Overtired and emotional]

Luc,

Is a female afficiando, an afficianista or afficianilla? Sounds a little too guerilla related for the very peaceable subject of cheese.

Generally on a cheese forum, it would be good to know more about retail suppliers. In this part of the world there is one first class cheese monger, and that, in effect, to serve around 2.5 million people. That says plenty about the British attitude to cheese. Farmers' markets are a good source but, by definition, whilst the product is good, the variety is narrow.

Finally, if there are any agony aunts out there, can I admit, in polite company, to participating in a blog about drink and cheese?

[g-man]

Stilton is one of the worst pairings with port in my opinion. I would like to see someone eat Stilton with port for more than a bite and look me in the eye and say that it is a perfect pairing.

Monchego, Parmaesan, Asiago are much better pairings. Stilton is too rich and the port does not cut the richness of it at all. I find the "spoon cheeses" to be too rich as well.

Stilton on top an olive oil toasted bagette and sauternes.

Yum....

[g-man]

I have to say the general rule i stick with cheeses is that

Soft cheeses I pair with Vintage Port or Ruby types

Hard cheese I pair with a Riesling or Gewurtz or Tawnys

Blues I pair with sauternes

[Ghandih]

Firstly, this is indeed the Missus of Ghandhi - Hells Bells (using his log in) and I know JDAW will be keen that I make some form of reply. Indeed it doth appear that there are many folk out there who would like to enjoy something special with their vintage port and wine. Cheese has always been the fodder of choice, but only the brave seem willing to admit that it isn't always the best choice.

It seems widely accepted among the educated here on the forum that Stilton is not the best partner for port and also the scooping out of the centre of a Stilton round to fill with port is also more of a myth than a delicacy -in short, don't do it. You'll be wasting good cheese and port.

Now Ghandhi has already given away a big secret - Waterloo. Bad boy! I share the later thought that artisan producers of cheese should be encouraged to keep their production artisan. It was with a wry smile that I heard the producer of Stinking Bishop interviewed on radio in response to the mass demand for his cheese following Nick Park's latest Wallace & Grommit film. The Yanks wanted it, couldn't get enough but Mr Stinking Bishop refused to increase his production/yield as he felt in order to do this he would have to sacrifice the quality of the cheese.
So while in theory I would support a cheese forum, I would be very cautious as many of the Artisan producers of cheese may be forced to make that decision - profit versus quality. Not a good position for us consumers to be in.

So my final comments on cheese this evening:
1. Avoid the Supermarkets - they're far too restricted by legislation they buy cheeses before they're ripe and therefore the cheeses never really reach maturity
2. However, if you do need to use a supermarket - use Waitrose they try to buy ethically from local producers and they tend to have riper cheeses
3. Seek out local delicatessens in the same way you do a good wine merchant and get to know them etc - if they think you're going to be a good customer they will look after you too!
4. Avoid cling film for cheese storage - use greaseproof paper
5. Store cheese at cellar temperature not in the fridge to get the best from it (being big port drinkers I know you all have a good cellar)




And finally - enjoy!
Hells Bells x