White paint (or the absence thereof)

[idj123]

Probably a rudimentary question, but does the absence of the white splash of paint (after the labels have long since since fallen away) rule out the possibility of the bottle contents being VP or is the use of white paint not necessarily universal in the Industry (and it's on a bottle by bottle basis)?

[djewesbury]

In my experience it's not by any means universal. But let's await word from the Gods. Someone here has probably written a chapter on which type of whitewash was favoured by which shippers and importers, and how chemical analysis of the splash can help to identify unlabelled bottles.

[Andy Velebil]

The splash of paint was not universally used. Some producers did it, some did not. Some did, then stopped, then did again. Some did for certain brands in their portfolio and not for others (or did a different type of splash for each brand).

Very few are still doing it due to the labor cost. And, IMO, it really means nothings in the scheme of things as the sediment doesn't really care what part of the inside of the bottle it sits on.

Most negotiant bottles I've seen, bottled outside of Porto, did not apply the splash.

[uncle tom]

It's usage was common, but not universal. Sometimes it was done with paint proper, but as often with limewash, which was sometimes cleaned off when the bottles were removed from their bins and labelled.

It's presence does confirm that the bottle was intended to be laid down, which can be useful when looking at old unknown bottles as I did today - a bottle with pre-war glass and old foil capsule, and a handwritten label that said 'Coronation port, 1936, bottled 1935' Given the colour of the wine, and the paint splash, I guessed that this was probably not a tawny.

Given the excellent level and condition of the bottle, I thought it £90 well spent..

[DRT]

a bottle with pre-war glass and old foil capsule, and a handwritten label that said 'Coronation port, 1936, bottled 1935' Given the colour of the wine, and the paint splash, I guessed that this was probably not a tawny.

Hmmm? I don't think the white splash was not the biggest clue on this bottle

[DRT]

The white splash was not really a shipper trick, it was a bottler trick, the vast majority of which happened in England.

[AW77]

a bottle with pre-war glass

What's the difference between pre-war and today's glass? Was the glass thinner back then?

[DRT]

a bottle with pre-war glass

What's the difference between pre-war and today's glass? Was the glass thinner back then?

Pre-war glass is older

[AW77]

Pre-war glass is older

You don't say!

[uncle tom]

What's the difference between pre-war and today's glass? Was the glass thinner back then?

Thicker actually, and quite a lot so - a full 1900's bottle weighs around 1500g, a 1960's bottle around 1375g - current one's are coming in below 1300g.

Clues can be found on punt mould marks - rare before the late sixties/early seventies. Uneven glass colour tends to pre-date 1955, two part seams that can be readily felt with the finger tend to pre-date the mid sixties, air bubbles in the glass are almost non-existant post WWII - full and even deep green glass seems to have first appeared in the mid/late sixties, prior to that, green glass was a bit washed out and uneven; visible stress marks in the glass tend to predate the 1930's, small mouth diameters sometimes, but not always, indicate pre-WWI...

[LGTrotter]

Go on, that '...' Indicates there may be more to come.

Are these your observations or is this also from books/web etc?

[Andy Velebil]

What's the difference between pre-war and today's glass? Was the glass thinner back then?

Thicker actually, and quite a lot so - a full 1900's bottle weighs around 1500g, a 1960's bottle around 1375g - current one's are coming in below 1300g.

Clues can be found on punt mould marks - rare before the late sixties/early seventies. Uneven glass colour tends to pre-date 1955, two part seams that can be readily felt with the finger tend to pre-date the mid sixties, air bubbles in the glass are almost non-existant post WWII - full and even deep green glass seems to have first appeared in the mid/late sixties, prior to that, green glass was a bit washed out and uneven; visible stress marks in the glass tend to predate the 1930's, small mouth diameters sometimes, but not always, indicate pre-WWI...

Well said!


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[uncle tom]

Are these your observations or is this also from books/web etc?

All personal observations