The "Deeper Underground" Offline (28 Jan 2008)

[jdaw1]

My brother might be a late decision: I’ll bring the two Warres anyway.

SL+KL: please confirm Dow + Croft.

Current draft of placemat updated. Please can:

1. Derek T. to verify that these are correct;
2. Somebody other than me print and bring (it’ll save me carrying them across the Atlantic).

[Conky]

Without experimenting, whats a tenth of a Port bottle?

I'd guess half a Port glass? Any advance?

I was thinking a Bottle each was on the sensible side, but when you consider we have a commercial environment and a 'chucking out' time, it seems quite reasonable.

Alan

[DRT]

Without experimenting, whats a tenth of a Port bottle?

I'd guess half a Port glass? Any advance?

You can easily get 12 decent tasting measures out of a bottle of port. I have a feeling a few non-66's may put is a guest appearance just to ensure a constant supply of juice isn't an issue

Derek

[DRT]

My brother might be a late decision: I’ll bring the two Warres anyway.

SL+KL: please confirm Dow + Croft.

Current draft of placemat updated. Please can:

1. Derek T. to verify that these are correct;
2. Somebody other than me print and bring (it’ll save me carrying them across the Atlantic).

I note the use of the possesive for Adam's but not for others that one might traditionally expect, specifically Graham's, Warre's and Dow's.

Apart from that they look fine to me.

Derek

[jdaw1]

“Adam† then. Done.

[Simon Lisle]

I'll bring along the Dow's and Croft and throw in the Delaforce if needed.

[Conky]

I've speed read this thread again, and sorry if I missed it, but has anyone secured the Crusting Pipe?
Could be quite a blow if they are closed on the 28th!

[jdaw1]

Fine question — not I.

[DRT]

A fine question indeed, and something that any competent offline organiser would not forget to do ...

I will PM AHB immediately and ask him to use his usual source at The Pipe to secure the best table, glasses and little or no corkage. This may cause an additional member to join our merry band, the manager, Ian.

Derek

[DRT]

Updated lists with changes highlighted:

Bottles:

1. 1966 Adam’s (JRK);
2. 1966 Dow (SL);
3. 1966 Fonseca (AHB);
4. 1966 Graham (ARK via DRT);
5. 1966 Noval (DRT);
6. 1966 Offley Boa Vista (Conky? via DRT);
7. 1966 Rebello Valente (OT&E? via DRT);
8. 1966 Warre (JDAW);
9. 1966 BBR believed Warre (JDAW);
10. 1966 Croft (SL).

People:

1. JRK;
2. AHB;
3. DRT;
4. JDAW;
5. SL;
6. KL;
7. ACC;
8. J? (=OT.&E.);
9. ARK;
10. Maybe JDAW’s brother APPW.

This information needs to be embedded within the current draft of placemat.

[jdaw1]

Current draft of placemat updated, and IW added to the list of drinkers. I note your use of possessive “Adam’s† without comment.

[DRT]

Here are some words about the port we will be drinking to get your juices flowing...

Richard Mayson (Port and the Douro)

1966***** Power and elegance; complete
Although the standard is perhaps not as high across the board as 1963, there are a number of really stupendous vintage ports combining structure and quintessential "bitter chocolate" intensity. Dow and Fonseca are two of my fovourites, followed by dense, brooding wines from Delaforce, Graham and Taylor. The 1966s may be drunk now, but the best of these wines will keep for a lifetime or more.

Pick of the vintage: Dow, Fonseca and Quinta do Noval Nacional

Michael Broadbent (Vintage Wine)

A marvellous vintage declared by 20 shippers, Cockburn and Martinez being the odd-men out. Firm yet flexible wines with perfect weight and balance. Sinewy and long-lasting. Most will almost certainly outlast the '63s, and will probably turn out greater in the end. All this was due to a hot year which ripened but did not singe the grapes, and some rain at vintage time which reduced concentration. This vintage is still somewhat underestimated and undervalued.

Berry Brothers Selection
A superbly balanced wine blended and bottled in Berry Bros style...Still deep, relatively youthful for its age; harmonious, waxy bouquet, fairly sweet, nice weight, elegant, well balanced. In short, delicious. Shipped via Percy Fox & Co, then Warre's agents.
Last tasted 1989 *****

Croft
In the mid-1980s: plummy; fruity; harmonious; good depth, nice weight. Now, noting a strange peppery nose; fairly sweet, touch of hardness.
Last tasted 1993 ***

Dow
...lovely, evolved, slightly spirity; very sweet for Dow, delicious, perfect now.
Last tasted 2002 *****

Fonseca
...flawless bouquet, crisp, rich, classic. Sweet with lovely fleshy texture, fruit, flavour and finish. Might surpass even the '63.
Last tasted 1998 *****

Graham
...a lovely soft ruby colour; classic nose, licquorice, touch of tar; leaner than expected but lovely...superb bouquet, flavour and texture.
Last tasted 2001 *****

Quinta do Noval
In the early days somewhat beefy for Noval. Still very deep, with good 'legs'; good, figgy nose; very sweet, good flesh. An excellent Noval combining the sweetness of Graham and the backbone of Taylor. Good flesh. Still tannic.
Last tasted 1995 ****

Offley Boa Vista
...rich and fat with good fruit in the early 1980s. More recently, fully mature yet still rather hard fruit. Full bodied.
Last tasted 1993 ***

Warre
A wine with suppleness and a bit of a swagger. Several consistent notes over the past ten years. Now mature-looking, even a hint of orange; 'lovely' nose noted on three occassions; fairly, not very, sweet, perfect weight and flavour. Most recently, similar notes, very good texture and flavour. 'What port is all about'
Last tasted 2002 *****


James Suckling (Vintage Port)

1966: Outstanding (93)
Iron backbone, good concentration, fresh flavours

The best wines from 1966 are those from the highly reputed houses, though Niepoort and Offley also made excellent wines. The stars are clearly Noval Nacional and Fonseca. They are massive wines with a bounty of ripe fruit and hard tannins. The Graham, Sandeman, Cockburn, Noval and Croft are also outstanding. Especially noteworthy in this group is the 1966 Quinta do Noval, which is much better than the Noval 1963, and probably the best Noval since 1955.

• Fonseca - 97 pts
• Dow - 94 pts
• Graham - 93 pts
• Quinta do Noval - 91 pts
• Warre - 91 pts
• Croft - 90 pts
• Offley Boa Vista - 90 pts
• Rebello Valente - 82 pts

Derek

[DRT]

I note your use of possessive “Adam’s† without comment.

I appologise for my oversight in not correcting your error when I copied the list from a previous thread

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

Without experimenting, whats a tenth of a Port bottle?

I'd guess half a Port glass? Any advance?

I was thinking a Bottle each was on the sensible side, but when you consider we have a commercial environment and a 'chucking out' time, it seems quite reasonable.

Sharing a bottle of port between 12 people means that each person gets about a small port glass of each bottle. By "small port glass", I mean a normal sized port glass filled to the point where the glass reaches its widest point. If we're using normal wine glasses then it will be a splash in the bottom of the glass.

From experience, a bottle of port apiece over an evening at the Crusting Pipe is about right, perhaps a little on the light side.

However, also from experience, Ian usually has a decent selection of ports that are not too expensive behind the bar and one or two of those usually also get purchased and opened on the night to supplement the bottles we bring with us. This achieves two things:
(a) we get plenty to drink; and
(b) Ian is happy as he makes his margin on the extra bottles he sells us and looks forward to the next time we book the Crusting Pipe.
I'll find out what he expects to have behind the bar towards the end of January and post it here.

I'll contact the Crusting Pipe today and find out when Ian is next in, as I would prefer to book the venue directly with him. Do we also need to book a gross of glasses?

Alex

[DRT]

Do we also need to book a gross of glasses?

Yes, we do.

Thanks for doing this, Alex.

It might be worth asking Ian what they have available at the Davy's shop as we might even pick-up another 66. It would be good to add taylor to this line-up if we could as it is a notebale omission at present.

Derek

[DRT]

Updated lists with additions highlighted in red. Some amendments to wine descriptions have not been highlighted but are now more accurate following my research last night:

Bottles:

1. 1966 Adam's (JRK);
2. 1966 Dow's (SL);
3. 1966 Fonseca (AHB);
4. 1966 Graham's (ARK via DRT);
5. 1966 Quinta do Noval (DRT);
6. 1966 Offley Boa Vista (Conky? via DRT);
7. 1966 Robertson's Rebello Valente (OT&E? via DRT);
8. 1966 Warre's (JDAW);
9. 1966 Berry Brothers Selection shipped by Warre's agent (JDAW);
10. 1966 Croft (SL);
11. 1966 CG's Contribution (CG)
12. 1966 Avery's (AHB for IW).

People:

1. JRK;
2. AHB;
3. DRT;
4. JDAW;
5. SL;
6. KL;
7. ACC;
8. J? (=OT.&E.);
9. ARK;
10. Christopher Gee - Crusting Pipe Diehard;
11. Ian Wright - Manager of the Crusting Pipe - if he can get a pass from the Mrs
12. Maybe JDAW’s brother APPW.

This information needs to be embedded within the current draft of placemat.

Updated following the post from AHB below

Updated again following discovery of initials transposition blunder

[Alex Bridgeman]

Venue and glasses now booked. We have our usual table in the tunnel at the back and 144 glasses to share between us.

Ian Wright will happily accept our invitation to join, subject to being allowed a domestic pass as he is on holiday the week of Jan 28th. With 12 people, I think that all places have now been taken at the tasting.

I've agreed that if Ian joins us he does not have to provide a bottle of port as he will effectively be providing the venue. However, to keep the bottle numbers and drinker numbers equal, I will bring a 12th bottle and will bring the Avery's 1966.

In terms of costs, we should budget for a meal each (but, if I recall correctly, Monday nights have the fixed price theatre menu available for £15) plus £10 corkage each plus service and tips amounting to, say, a total of £35 per head for the evening. If we end up buying a bottle or two of port from behind the bar, the budget we each have in mind should be set at about £50 a head.

Alex

[jdaw1]

How big are the Crusting Pipe’s glasses? Twelve on one sheet is very tight: should I split into 2Ã six?

[jdaw1]

1966 CG's Contribution (GC)

Is that a transposition of letters, or a transposition of meanings with one meaning being “Gould Campbell†?

[DRT]

1966 CG's Contribution (GC)

Is that a transposition of letters, or a transposition of meanings with one meaning being “Gould Campbell†?

It's incompetence. Both should read CG, being the initials of our latest addition to the attendee list.

[jdaw1]

Current draft of placemat assuming Gould Campbell and the team preference is for the split.

Edit: you beat me to the post. Will change it again.

Edit edit: current draft of placemat fixed.

[Ghandih]

Hello,

It seems like this is all wrapped up, but might there be space for me, if I weren't almost certainly going to be in Tipperary? I would start trying to make the necessary rearrangements and courting permission from the management, but if I'm too late then I needn't bother.

Ghandih

PS I did check whether I might be able to pop back for the evening from Ireland, but it looks like that wouldn't be possible, confirming what we already knew, that it's a long way to Tipperary.

[Conky]

Simon,

I'm sure you could be squeezed in, but I've read your Post 3 times, and I still cant quite work out whether there's a chance you can make it, or not?
It may be me being dense, and I would look forward to your company, but just clear it up.

Alan

[Ghandih]

Honest answer is I don't know whether I could swing it or not, but it would take some mighty hefting to swing, and I'd rather not heft in vain.

My main concern was the amount of port you can get from any one bottle, which I've read on TPF to be about 12 glasses. There are 12 of you already, and I might be a bit of a Judas if I deprived folk of a full glass's worth of joy.

I'd rather stay friends with you all and tag along to another event!!

[DRT]

Ghandih,

Nice to hear from you again. I hope you haven't been tiddling your wink all this time - it'll drop off

I for one would be more than happy for you to join us. Yes, it is true that a bottle of port will provide a good measure for 12, but that means it will provide an adequate measure for 13

...and it must also be remembered that we will have 14 or 15 adequate measures each to drink so I don't see a problem. Another factor to consider is that 2 attendees have not yet confirmed and I would hate to turn away a willing and eager participant only to find we have an empty chair on the night.

I vote: Ghandih Can Come

I even know where you can buy a bottle of Delaforce 1966 at a very reasonable price

Go buy your Mrs some cheese and seal the deal.

Derek

[jdaw1]

I vote: Ghandih Can Come

Seconded here. Especially as:

1. he’s bringing Delaforce 1966; and
2. he’s missing the 53rd CUTwC Annual Dinner the weekend before.

[jdaw1]

And, of course, current draft of placemat updated.

[Alex Bridgeman]

How big are the Crusting Pipe’s glasses? Twelve on one sheet is very tight: should I split into 2Ã six?

The Crusting Pipe has decent glasses for small groups but has to order in for a group as large as ours. Sadly, the glasses that they order in are only Paris goblets.

My advice to anyone who can is to bring glasses of your own to supplement or replace the Crusting Pipe's standard offer. I will bring half a dozen or so tasting glasses, depending on what I can find to carry them in safely.

Alex

[DRT]

I vote: Ghandih Can Come

Seconded here. Especially as:

1. he’s bringing Delaforce 1966; and
2. he’s missing the 53rd CUTwC Annual Dinner the weekend before.

As the statutory 12-hour deadline for objections against a seconded proposal has now passed, I can officially declare that:

Ghandih Can Come

Derek

[Ghandih]

To those who have championed my attendance, many thanks. I will now endeavour to clear the other impediments to attending, and will keep you posted.

I note that I'm down to bring along a bottle of Delaforce '66. I'm pretty sure there isn't one of those in my cellar, so await with some interest advice on whence this might appear.


Ghandih

[DRT]

I even know where you can buy a bottle of Delaforce 1966 at a very reasonable price

I have already commenced negotiations and recieved tacit approval. Will find out exact price and let you know.

If successful, the bottle we be delivered to the venue (decanted) on the day.

Now go buy the biggest smelliest most expensive cheese you can find and tell the Mrs she and the cheese are off to Tipperary on their own

[Ghandih]

All,

To keep you posted, got provisional approval from Mrs G for the night out ('how much will it cost?' asked she, 'err, don't know' said I, 'but it is my birthday' [on the 26th]).

Now trying to persuade lawyers in Ireland they don't need my expert witnessness that evening - this could be the tricky bit.

Cheers,


Ghandih

[DRT]

Now trying to persuade lawyers in Ireland they don't need my expert witnessness that evening - this could be the tricky bit.

Tell them you have been suspended from work for suspected fraud. That should seal the deal.

Derek

[Conky]

Working in the Legal Profession, and having had the pleasure of meeting you, I can vouch for the fact your an expert in Bugger all!!!

Hope this helps.

Alan.

[DRT]

Working in the Legal Profession, and having had the pleasure of meeting you, I can vouch for the fact your an expert in Bugger all!!!

...but what if the case involves some horrendous crime committed as part of the Tiperary Annual Tiddlywinks Festival or the question is How to make a cooked breakfast last two and half hours?

Surely our friend Ghanidih would be a foremost authority?

Derek

[Conky]

I cant fault the logic....are you a Barrister?

[DRT]

I cant fault the logic....are you a Barrister?

No. But I am a Deputy Apostrophe Crime Sheriff.

[jdaw1]

Is Ghandi going to fly back to blighty for drinks, and then back to Ireland for whatever nonsense is happening there? Sure an environmental consultant wouldn’t make so much CO2 for such a transient pleasure. Please can we be reassured that the Irish problem will be left to stew in its own juices, without further Ghahnhdhi assistance?

[DRT]

Christopher Gee has very kindly undertaken to bring along a Taylor 1966 and a Morgan 1966.

Jdaw, could you please do the honours in updating the list and TM as I have to go to a meeting?

Thanks - especially to Christopher

Derek

[jdaw1]

Placemats updated. Please check OK.

This is a huge tasting: fourteen 1966s and many people. Will the CP really have 200+ glasses?

[KillerB]

I don't have fourteen Port glasses! This is going to be one hell of a horizontal, leading to some people becoming, well, horizontal.

[DRT]

On 6th November in the 1st post in this thread...

The plan is that we will taste nothing but 1966's for the whole evening and probably have the most comprehensive 1966 horizontal in recent history.

Told you so

Derek

[Conky]

You also told us that you agreed we should have 63 v 66. Then you also told us it should only be 66 again.

You've told us quite a lot really....

[DRT]

Are you now saying we should add 14 x 1963s?

[Conky]

If we did, and drunk them until about 4 in the morning, I would guess it would be a Port Tasting never to be topped! You can have your unknowns, F Plans, 31 Nacionals... I'd plump for 14 x 66's and 14 x 63's !!!

[DRT]

In case anyone was wondering, here are all the known 1966 vintage ports that we do not yet have in the line-up:

Quinta do Noval Nacional
Sandeman
Niepoort
Ferriera
Gould Campbell
Messias Quinta do Cachao
Smith Woodhouse
Calem
Quinta de la Rosa
Kopke
Quarles Harris

So, it's not like we've overdone it with only 14 bottles, is it?

Derek

[KillerB]

No, of course not, we've only got little more than half of all those produced.

Oooh Sandeman, that was nice.

[jdaw1]

Bottles:

1. 1966 Adam (JRK);
2. 1966 Avery (AHB for IW);
3. 1966 Delaforce (SRG);
4. 1966 Offley Boa Vista (ACC);
5. 1966 Robertson's Rebello Valente (JGH);
6. 1966 Berry Brothers Selection shipped by Warre's agent (JDAW);
7. 1966 Warre's (JDAW);
8. 1966 Croft (SL+KL);
9. 1966 Dow (SL+KL);
10. 1966 Fonseca (AHB);
11. 1966 Graham (ARK);
12. 1966 Morgan (CG);
13. 1966 Quinta do Noval (DRT);
14. 1966 Taylor (CG).

(In order of appearance on the current draft of placemat.) And fourteen out of twenty-five is 56%.

[jdaw1]

People:

1. JRK;
2. AHB;
3. DRT;
4. JDAW;
5. SL;
6. KL;
7. ACC;
8. JGH;
9. ARK;
10. CG (have I missed his TPF ID?);
11. IW (= Ian Wright = Manager of the Crusting Pipe);
12. APPW.

[DRT]

• CG (have I missed his TPF ID?)

No. He's not a member. Yet.