Pointless Statistics

Anything to do with Port.
PhilW
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by PhilW »

Since I've enjoyed and been intrigued by other's pointless statistics, I thought I should take a turn and add some of my own:
At the turn of the year 2014/15 my cellar comprises 99% port, 1% other wine. This breaks down as follows:
  • 90% Vintage port (VP+SQVP)
  • 4% LBV
  • 3% Tawny/Colheita
  • 2% Crusted
  • 1% non-port wine
Of the vintage port, the highest represented houses are Warre (26%), Graham (16%), Fonseca (13%) and Croft (8%).
Last edited by PhilW on 11:12 Fri 02 Jan 2015, edited 1 time in total.
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AW77
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AW77 »

LGTrotter wrote:
AHB wrote:Burgundy **shudder**. No. There is no Burgundy in my cellar. When a bottle occasionally turns up through gift or mixed lot purchase, it is used in cooking.
Cooking? Arrrggghhhhh.....
Perhaps you two could solve this issue by swapping bottles? :)
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DRT
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

AW77 wrote:
LGTrotter wrote:
AHB wrote:Burgundy **shudder**. No. There is no Burgundy in my cellar. When a bottle occasionally turns up through gift or mixed lot purchase, it is used in cooking.
Cooking? Arrrggghhhhh.....
Perhaps you two could solve this issue by swapping bottles? :)
I know the best way to enjoy Burgundy...

1. Cut 1kg of well-aged shoulder steak into two-inch cubes

2. Peel six shallots

3. Crush three cloves of garlic

4. Put 1, 2 and 3 in a large casserole dish and pour in the bottle of Burgundy.

5. Place the dish in the fridge for 24 hours

6. Add beef stock, chopped carrots and mushrooms

7. Place in the oven for four hours or more

8. Add roast potatoes

9. Enjoy the perfect plate of Beef Burgundy with a glass of Bordeaux
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter »

Are there no kind words for burgundy? Too subtle for the likes of you ruffians I s'pose *wipes away tear with lace cuff*.

And I forgot to mention the two bottles of Riesling. But I doubt they will be hanging around for long.
PhilW wrote:1% non-port wine
Blimey, and I thought Alex had a port heavy cellar. I think you should drink both of them this afternoon and stop shilly-shallying around with these new and dangerous ideas.
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AW77
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by AW77 »

LGTrotter wrote:Are there no kind words for burgundy? Too subtle for the likes of you ruffians I s'pose *wipes away tear with lace cuff*.
I guess it takes a gentle soul to appreciate Burgundy. So this is a quality the rest of us here lack. I hope this gives you some solace.
LGTrotter wrote: And I forgot to mention the two bottles of Riesling. But I doubt they will be hanging around for long.
I hope they will be tasted soon. I still hope for a Damascene moment. :) But I fear that for someone who likes Chablis Riesling will be too acidic. (Vice versa, Chablis is too dull for me as there is no acidity. I guess that what tannins are for red wine in this Burgundy debate, acidity is for white wine.)
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djewesbury
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury »

AW77 wrote:I guess that what tannins are for red wine in this Burgundy debate, acidity is for white wine.
A very interesting observation. I like it.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury »

Today I took charge of a T35 that is the sister of this one drunk at the Bell on the 18th of December 2014 (and of one drunk with Derek and Justin in November). At 80 years old, and around £65, this is now easily my best value-per-year bottle at less than 82p for each year since vintage. Does anyone else know offhand of similarly good value bottles, using this same method of calculation?
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djewesbury
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury »

I would be interested to know AHB's wines of 2014. Are these already posted somewhere?
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

djewesbury wrote:I would be interested to know AHB's wines of 2014. Are these already posted somewhere?
In his signature.
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djewesbury
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury »

Oh yeah. Not visible on TapaUseless.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury »

Viewing them on my laptop now I am surprised. I was with him when he drank some quite stellar things; I didn't expect two 2011s and a 94 to be the AHB top three.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

djewesbury wrote:Viewing them on my laptop now I am surprised. I was with him when he drank some quite stellar things; I didn't expect two 2011s and a 94 to be the AHB top three.
Let me finish typing up my 2014 notes and then I can post everything and update my top wines of the year.

Incidentally, port can only be used to make a good Bolognese sauce if it is Fonseca 1966.
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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djewesbury
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Pointless Statistics

Post by djewesbury »

AHB wrote:
djewesbury wrote:Viewing them on my laptop now I am surprised. I was with him when he drank some quite stellar things; I didn't expect two 2011s and a 94 to be the AHB top three.
Let me finish typing up my 2014 notes and then I can post everything and update my top wines of the year.
Noted. (Or should that be 'Tasting Noted'?)
AHB wrote: Incidentally, port can only be used to make a good Bolognese sauce if it is Fonseca 1966.
Whereas any old Romanée-Conti will do for a Boeuf Bourgignon.
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PopulusTremula
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by PopulusTremula »

Have done a quick and dirty rundown of the wines i keep in storage at Vinotheque and the numbers came up as follows, all based on 75cl bottle equivalents:

(rounding errors are mine)
Countries
Austria 1.10%
France 25.33%
Germany 25.63%
Italy 8.83% (of which 14% is from Tuscany, rest is from Piemonte)
Portugal 39.11% (of which 90% is VP, 10% is SQVP)

France Regions
Alsace 4.36%
Bordeaux 21.19% (split approx. 50/50 between dry red and Sauternes)
Burgundy 1.98%
Chablis 4.36%
Champagne 9.11%
Languedoc-Roussillon 9.50%
Loire 3.96%
Provence 16.24% (not all are technically from Provence but close enough)
Rhone 29.70% (of which 16% are whites and 84% reds)

Germany - Regions (the only reds are from Ahr, rest are white)
Ahr 2.27%
Mosel 43.10%
Nahe 2.27%
Rheinhessen 50.09%

Germany – Prädikat (more or less)
GG 42.72%
Qba 2.27%
Kabinett 4.16%
Spätlese 20.42% (incl. GK)
Auslese 23.82% (incl. GK and LGK)
Beerenauslese 1.51%
Trockenbeerenauslese 2.84%

Port shippers
Dow 7.71%
Fonseca 16.2%
Graham 16.97%
Niepoort 0.77%
Offley Boa Vista 5.91%
Quevedo 6.17%
Quinta do Noval 11.83%
Ramos Pinto 3.08%
Sandeman 3.08%
Taylor 16.45%
Warre 10.28%
Smith Woodhouse 1.54%

Port Vintages
1977 1.54%
1980 1.29%
1985 12.08%
1994 31.88%
1995 5.91%
1997 4.11%
2000 14.14%
2003 3.08%
2007 4.63%
2009 6.94%
2011 12.85%
2012 1.54%

Apart from odd lots of older VP and other dry wines kept at home, the above is a fairly good breakdown of the cellar. Now the focus will turn to VP from 1970, 1980 and 1985, bypassing 1977s (apart from those already held).

Also, at home i keep three bottles of 2004 Penfolds Bin 707, which i just can't seem to like despite showing them goodwill and being of an open mind. Just too much of fruit and everything else, to my palate at least. They have been kept well since purchase, in a dark crawlspace under the stairs. If anyone is interested i would happily swap them for some VP of equivalent value based on the price i paid (around £45 GBP).
Last edited by PopulusTremula on 21:11 Thu 08 Jan 2015, edited 1 time in total.
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jdaw1
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 »

Seven posts on German wine moved by jdaw1 to a new thread imaginatively entitled German wine.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

My final burst of pointless statistics before I vanish into the hell that is my tax return. These are based on my tasting notes, now written up for 2014.

In 2014 I wrote 479 port tasting notes. 7 of these were of ports from the 19th century, the oldest of which was from 1855, and a further 22 were from vintages prior to 1946. 10 of the ports were from the 2012 vintage and 4 from the 2014 vintage. There were 18 non-vintage ports and 2 old bottles (probably from the 19th century) whose vintages could not be determined. At least 17 notes were taken each month and in one month I took 120 separate tasting notes.

The best I tasted (99/100) were the Scion and the Nacional 2011. The worst I tasted and scored was a Dow 1970 (73/100) and a Warre 1958 (77/100).

Most frequently tasted producers were: (48) Graham including Malvedos, (48) Taylor including Vargellas and (41) Fonseca including Fonseca Guimaraens.
Most frequently tasted vintages were: 1994 (37), 1970 (27), 1985 (25) and 1963 (25).
The most often tasted ports were: (10) Taylor 1985 - thanks to the Taylor 1985 case study; (6) Graham 1980; (5) Graham 1970, Graham 1977.

Score distribution was:
73 - 1
77 - 1
78 - 2
80 - 3
81 - 5
82 - 12
83 - 13
84 - 16
85 - 38
86 - 32
87 - 31
88 - 45
89 - 42
90 - 40
91 - 39
92 - 37
93 - 33
94 - 29
95 - 18
96 - 6
97 - 5
98 - 2
99 - 2
Not rated (because it was unrepresentative or not appropriate or because I forgot to rate it) - 27

I now have a database of over 3,200 port tasting notes that I have taken. 25% of these come from the four vintages of 1970 (8%), 1963 (7%), 1985 (5%) and 1977 (5%). 24% come from the three shippers of Graham (9%), Taylor (8%) and Warre (7%).

The oldest tasting note I have in my records I wrote in 1989 and is of a bottle of Burmester 1937 colheita, bottled in 1987.
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
LGTrotter
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter »

jdaw1 wrote:Seven posts on German wine moved by jdaw1 to a new thread imaginatively entitled German wine.
And one post not related to German wine. Oh well it wasn't important. Once again I am at the mercy of the fickle finger of fate. Or Julian as he is otherwise known.
AHB wrote:The oldest tasting note I have in my records I wrote in 1989 and is of a bottle of Burmester 1937 colheita, bottled in 1987.
I am not sure what my first tasting note for anything might be. I did have a notebook where I wrote a few words related to the wines listed, but I think my first proper note was in 2002 and I think it was for a Graham 1985. No wonder I got hooked on port.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

djewesbury wrote:Today I took charge of a T35 that is the sister of this one drunk at the Bell on the 18th of December 2014 (and of one drunk with Derek and Justin in November). At 80 years old, and around £65, this is now easily my best value-per-year bottle at less than 82p for each year since vintage. Does anyone else know offhand of similarly good value bottles, using this same method of calculation?
I was reviewing this thread prior to posting some pointless statistics for 2015 and stumbled across this unanswered question from Daniel. It triggered an extra statistic being added to my cellar listing spreadsheet and I can now proudly say that the best value for money using the DJ method of calculation would be two bottles of Taylor 1955 which I purchased at auction for the sum of £11 each in March 2010 - this worked out at 20p per year at the time.

After that it would be 4 bottles of Fonseca 1948 which I bought from the Watlington Working Men's Club in 2009, when they were selling off everything prior to the building being demolished and replaced by 372 luxury one and two bedroom apartments designed for spacious living for the ambitious modern dweller (limited parking available). Watlington's loss was my gain as I acquired the 4 bottles of F48 and a case and a half of Warre 1958 for a total of £400 (inc. VAT) - 30p per year for the F48. I couldn't believe my luck when I walked in mid-afternoon and saw these were still for sale despite the mad rush in the morning - apparently the morning buyers were just after the whisky and beer and some of the bar equipment and furniture.
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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DRT
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

About ten years ago I purchased two bottles of White's of Leicester 1873 and a Magnum of Fonseca 1920 for the grand sum of £50. I will leave itto Daniel to "do the math".
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

I now grandly unveil my pointless statistics for 2015. My overwhelming impression is how little has changed during the year in terms of the balance of my cellar and the port within it. Despite having failed (again) in my ambition to reduce the number of bottles in my cellar, not much is different at the macro level.

I hope you enjoy reading what follows:

Cellar Statistics
Today, 91% (2014: 91%) of what I own is port, 3% (3%) is Bordeaux, 2% (2%) Champagne, 1% (1%) Australian, 1% (1%) Spanish and 1% (1%) South African. 2% is “other” with no single region accounting for more than 0.5%. I own no Burgundy or German wines.

62% (2014: 61%) of the port will be aged 21 or more in 2016 and therefore ready for drinking according to the traditional British rule of thumb. 23% of my port comes from the 21st century with the largest holdings being of the 2011 and 1963 vintages (both 8%, 2014: 9% and 8% respectively).

68% (2014: 69%) of my port is vintage port, 25% (25%) is single quinta vintage port, 5% (5%) is LBV and 2% (1%) is crusted.

15% (2014: 15%) of the containers are from Quinta do Vesuvio, 8% (8%) from each of Warre, Graham and Fonseca. 88% (88%) of the corks I own are in 75cl bottles, 8% (8%) are in half bottles, 4% (4%) are in magnums or larger format.

There are 475 (2014: 457) unique ports in the cellar.

4% of the port has been in my cellar for less than 1 year
2% of the port has been in my cellar for 1-2 (as in more than 1 but less than 2) years
9% has been in the cellar for 2-3 years
17% has been in the cellar for 3-5 years
50% has been in the cellar for 5-8 years
10% has been in the cellar for 8-11 years
4% has been in the cellar for 11-15 years
3% has been in the cellar for more than 15 years


Tasting Note Statistics
In 2015 I wrote 426 Port tasting notes, the smallest number in any of the last 5 years.

Included in these 426 notes were 13 10YO tawnies (including 1 white 10YO tawny), 8 20YO tawnies, 4 30YO tawnies (including 1 white 30YO tawny), 4 40YO tawnies, 19 colheitas, 4 crusted ports, 2 garrafeira ports, 30 LBV ports, 1 Massandra “port”, 1 Australian “tawny”, 9 ruby or ruby reserve, 2 fortified wines from South Africa, 48 single quinta vintage ports, 9 tawny ports, 7 white ports, 5 white colheitas and 260 vintage ports. Alarmingly that means nearly 40% of what passed my lips was not vintage port – a correction is clearly required for 2016.

1 of the tasting notes was written from a tasting of a 20cl miniature, 17 from half bottles, 4 from 50cl imps, 7 from magnums, 1 from tappit hen (2.1l), 2 from double magnum, 1 from jeroboam (4.5l) and 1 from imperial (6.0l). The 392 bottles tasted means that 92% of the containers I sipped from were 75cl in size.

5 tasting notes were of wines more than 100 years old, 4 of those from the 19th century. The oldest was from 1815; there were also wines from 1847, 1863 and 1884.

The average age of the port tasted was 35 years (and 4 months).

139 (33%) notes were of wines I had not tried before this year.

The wine I tasted most often was Fonseca 1985 (11 times), Dow 1970 (6 times) and Graham 1977 (6 times).

Looking back over the years I have made notes on the Fonseca 1985 and the Warre 1970 32 times, the Graham 1970 31 times and the Dow 1970 30 times.

My most tasted vintages are 1970 (7.7%), 1963 (6.3%) and 1977 (5.1%).

The shippers I have tasted most often are Graham (9%), Taylor (8%) and Warre (7%).

The wines tasted were scored most of the time, with the scoring profile being:
64 points – 1 (0.2%)
74 points – 1 (0.2%)
75 points – 1 (0.2%)
78 points – 1 (0.2%)
80 points – 2 (0.4%)
81 points – 6 (1.5%)
82 points – 3 (0.7%)
83 points – 12 (3.0%)
84 points – 16 (4.0%)
85 points – 25 (6.2%)
86 points – 29 (7.2%)
87 points – 23 (5.7%)
88 points – 40 (9.9%)
89 points – 55 (13.6%)
90 points – 30 (7.4%)
91 points – 35 (8.7%)
92 points – 36 (8.9%)
93 points – 27 (6.7%)
94 points – 35 (8.7%)
95 points – 13 (3.2%)
96 points – 8 (2.0%)
97 points – 1 (0.2%)
98 points – 4 (1.0%)
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

DRT wrote:About ten years ago I purchased two bottles of White's of Leicester 1873 and a Magnum of Fonseca 1920 for the grand sum of £50. I will leave itto Daniel to "do the math".
I reckon this works out as follows:

(2005-1873)x2=264
(2005-1920)x2=170

Total bottle-years purchased = 434
£50/434 = 11.5p per bottle-year. Best bargain so far.
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter »

AHB wrote:Alarmingly that means nearly 40% of what passed my lips was not vintage port – a correction is clearly required for 2016.
But looking on the bright side Glenn would be proud of you.

I am a little surprised at the length of time you have had your bottles. Not many seem to survive that long, they must all be quaking in their boots. But this is scarcely surprising given the 426 tasting notes. It probably says more about how few bottles I drink.

Am I right in thinking that English wine used to make it into your rankings? Was this merely a flash in the pan? I would surmise that Elizabeth has decided that Champagne makes better wine than the Sussex Downs (my opinion also, for now).

Thanks Alex, I shall continue to pour* over them.

*I think this is wrong, but surely it isn't 'paw' and 'pore' doesn't look right either. No doubt correction will be administered.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

Interesting statistics as always Mr B.

You have clearly had a good year, with 46.8% of the wines you tasted scoring 90 points or above :D
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by jdaw1 »

LGTrotter wrote:No doubt correction will be administered.
This is not that type of website. (And pore.)
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

LGTrotter wrote:I am a little surprised at the length of time you have had your bottles. Not many seem to survive that long, they must all be quaking in their boots. But this is scarcely surprising given the 426 tasting notes. It probably says more about how few bottles I drink.
I suspect that it is more a reflection of the fact that it was a little over 5 years ago that Tom made me think about bringing some structure to my cellar and I substantially increased the number of bottles that I owned. I plan and expect to draw 50-100 bottles per year from the cellar and top it up with a few cases per year of both new release and occasional cases of mature wines that can supplement what I already own (like when ex-cellars cases of magnums of Fonseca 1970 are offered at auction).
LGTrotter wrote:Am I right in thinking that English wine used to make it into your rankings? Was this merely a flash in the pan? I would surmise that Elizabeth has decided that Champagne makes better wine than the Sussex Downs (my opinion also, for now).
Not a flash in the pan, just a reflection that we haven't bought any for a while so stocks are low. I am sure that a couple of cases will be purchased soon - but it will be Camel Valley Bacchus rather than something from the Sussex Downs (although John Worontshak's wines are pretty good).
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter »

AHB wrote: but it will be Camel Valley Bacchus rather than something from the Sussex Downs (although John Worontshak's wines are pretty good).
I have not had this for some years but I remember thinking it the best of the English sparklers, better than anything I've had from Sussex.
AHB wrote:I suspect that it is more a reflection of the fact that it was a little over 5 years ago that Tom made me think about bringing some structure to my cellar and I substantially increased the number of bottles that I owned.
It would be wishful thinking on my part to substantially increase the size of my cellar, however I often wonder how to structure future purchases. I have tried to follow advice I have read from various sources (an old Hugh Johnson cellar book for instance). Still I find myself buying in a haphazard way, depending more on what seems like a bargain and on whim rather than the gaps that need filling. If there are rules of thumb, algorithms etc that people use I would be glad to hear them. I suspect that most people use my method, ie none.
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Alex Bridgeman
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

LGTrotter wrote:I have tried to follow advice I have read from various sources (an old Hugh Johnson cellar book for instance). Still I find myself buying in a haphazard way, depending more on what seems like a bargain and on whim rather than the gaps that need filling. If there are rules of thumb, algorithms etc that people use I would be glad to hear them. I suspect that most people use my method, ie none.
There's always a place for buying on a whim, but if you'd like my thoughts on how I'd add an overlay of structure to your buying ambitions then drop me a PM and let me know roughly what you've got today, how old you are and how many bottles of port a year you drink (or would like to drink).
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter »

Thank you Alex, I might just do this next time I do a roll call.
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by uncle tom »

I thought I'd been very restrained this year, but have still managed to buy 149 bottles of VP over the last twelve months..

As per may habit of the last few years, I am once again on track to quaff 48 bottles of VP casually at home - 46 down and 2 to go..

Total stock of VP now at 5,743, which means my cellar gains one bottle year of maturation every 92 minutes. Average age of VP is currently 31 years, 10 months and 4 days, or 182,878 years in total.

Total number of different VPs is now 599 - what should my 600th be??
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by /2alph »

uncle tom wrote:I thought I'd been very restrained this year, but have still managed to buy 149 bottles of VP over the last twelve months..

As per may habit of the last few years, I am once again on track to quaff 48 bottles of VP casually at home - 46 down and 2 to go..

Total stock of VP now at 5,743, which means my cellar gains one bottle year of maturation every 92 minutes. Average age of VP is currently 31 years, 10 months and 4 days, or 182,878 years in total.

Total number of different VPs is now 599 - what should my 600th be??
Awesome number of Ports you have. Are you a winetrader? Can you post a picture of your cellar?
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uncle tom
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by uncle tom »

Are you a winetrader? Can you post a picture of your cellar?
I'm not a trader in the sense that I trade to make a profit, but regularly supply bottles for tastings etc.

I keep forgetting how to post photos on these forums - imagine three very crowded cellars, stuffed with racks and cases..

I don't have a romantic cellar with brick arches, forgotten cobweb covered bins and rusty iron gates - although I often sketch designs for a cellar in that mould that could house everything under one roof..
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
CPR 1
Graham’s Malvedos 1996
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by CPR 1 »

As the old year has drawn to a close I have decided to share my cellar stats having enjoyed this thread and the stats that you have all shared. So here goes:-

As at 1st Jan 2017 my cellar is made up of

74% port
18% Bordeaux
3% Rhone
3% Burgundy
2% Italy

Of the port
87% is Vintage (includes Vesuvio and Noval)
9% SQVP
3% is LBV
1% is crusted
1% is Tawny / Colheita

and 58% of the port is ready to drink if you consider it ready at 21!

The shipper with highest % in the cellar is Fonseca with 14% but when I look at what I have drunk from the cellar Graham 14% leads the way from Warre on 10%.

The empties by my back door indicate that the vintage that I drank the most of in 2016 was 1977 followed by 1970.
/2alph
Fonseca LBV
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by /2alph »

With wich program do you manage your cellars?
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uncle tom
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by uncle tom »

With wich program do you manage your cellars?
I use Excel, aided by a raft of VBA code I've written myself
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
LGTrotter
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by LGTrotter »

CPR 1 wrote:As the old year has drawn to a close I have decided to share my cellar stats having enjoyed this thread and the stats that you have all shared. So here goes:-

As at 1st Jan 2017 my cellar is made up of

74% port
18% Bordeaux
3% Rhone
3% Burgundy
2% Italy

Of the port
87% is Vintage (includes Vesuvio and Noval)
9% SQVP
3% is LBV
1% is crusted
1% is Tawny / Colheita

and 58% of the port is ready to drink if you consider it ready at 21!

The shipper with highest % in the cellar is Fonseca with 14% but when I look at what I have drunk from the cellar Graham 14% leads the way from Warre on 10%.

The empties by my back door indicate that the vintage that I drank the most of in 2016 was 1977 followed by 1970.
Thanks for adding to this thread. Always fascinating to peek into other people's cellars.
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DRT
Fonseca 1966
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

My cellar contains roughly the equivalent of 835 bottles, of which...

>> 48% is Vintage Port
>> 34% is Bordeaux
>> 11% is Malt Whisky
>> 7% is Late Bottled Vintage Port
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
PhilW
Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by PhilW »

CPR 1 wrote:As the old year has drawn to a close I have decided to share my cellar stats having enjoyed this thread and the stats that you have all shared.
Having similarly enjoyed reading such posts previously, I have decided to join in the sharing this year also. My cellar is >99% port, of which:

Port by type:
82% Vintage (including SQVP)
9% LBV
3% Crusted
6% Tawny/colheita/white

Vintage port by shipper:
The producers with highest representation for VP in my cellar are Fonseca and Warre, both at 23%, followed by Graham at 9%.

Vintage port by years:
The years with highest representation for VP in my cellar are 1970, 1977 and then 1985.

Oddities:
I currently have no Dow at all in my cellar; this is not due to a dislike!
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flash_uk
Cálem Quinta da Foz 1970
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by flash_uk »

Bandwagon.

61% Port
37% France
2% Italy

Every single bottle of port is bottle aged. Fonseca/FG leads the way on 13.4%, followed by Taylor on 6.7% then Dow on 5.3%. Graham, Warre, Croft, Calem, Quevedo, Noval, Vesuvio are all between 3 and 5%.
JB vintage
Quinta do Noval LBV
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JB vintage »

jdaw1 wrote:The first Vesuvio vintage was 1989...
There are actually a couple of Vesuvio's made before 1989. There is a Vesuvio Vintage 1863 (that I have not tasted) and a Vezuvio Vintage 1963 bottled by Ferreira (that I have tasted).
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DRT
Fonseca 1966
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

JB vintage wrote:
jdaw1 wrote:The first Vesuvio vintage was 1989...
There are actually a couple of Vesuvio's made before 1989. There is a Vesuvio Vintage 1863 (that I have not tasted) and a Vezuvio Vintage 1963 bottled by Ferreira (that I have tasted).
This is true, but I think both of those were wood aged ports rather than being true VP.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
JB vintage
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JB vintage »

the 1963 is a true vintage port.
I have no indication that the 1863 is wood aged but cannot say for sure as I have only read about it.
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DRT
Fonseca 1966
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

Do you have any evidence that the Vesuvio 1963 is a true vintage port? I'm sure others here would be interested in that if it is true.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Andy Velebil
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Andy Velebil »

Vesuvio as a producer of grapes (and Port and who knows what else to whatever degree) has been around since 1565 if the tiles on the wall are correct. So it's entirely possible there were a lot more of Vesuvio made for in-house use, friends and family, and possible small sales over the decades.
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Alex Bridgeman
Fonseca 1966
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Some more pointless statistics from me, as much for my benefit as for anyone else's so I can see how things have changed over the last 12 months.

This year I took 111 bottles out of my "cellar". Combined with the purchases during the year, this left a cellar which was composed of:
91% Port
3.5% Bordeaux
1.5% Champagne
1.0% Australian
0.5% Spanish
0.5% South African
2.0% Other things, each less than 0.5% individually (including English, Hungarian, US, NZ, Lebanese, Portuguese, Chilean)

I added 116 bottles of Port to the cellar this year with an average age of 42 years. The oldest added was from 1887 and the youngest from 2014.

Using the 21 year rule, 62% of my port is ready for drinking (it was 61% last year, implying that 1% of my cellar comes from the 1996 vintage).

The average age of the port in my cellar is 34 years, 185 days. The bottles in my cellar gain a year of bottle age every 12 months.

88% of the undrawn port corks I own are in 75cl bottles, 8% in half bottles and 4% magnum or larger. 69% of the containers hold vintage port (which includes Quinta do Noval but excludes Quinta do Vesuvio), 25% hold Single Quinta Vintage Port (including Quinta do Vesuvio), 5% hold LBV, 1% holds crusted and 1% holds other stuff. I own 3 bottles of port which would be considered colheita port under current regulations.

The shippers making up the largest share of my port cellar are Quinta do Vesuvio (15%), Fonseca and Graham (both 8%). Looking only at the port ready for drinking the picture changes slightly to be Fonseca (10%), Graham and Warre (both 9%).

8% of my port is from the 2011 vintage with another 8% from 1963 and 6% is from 1994.

In 2016 I added 501 notes to my tasting note database bringing my total number of tasting notes up to 4,132 built up over 13 years. These cover 1,508 different ports and a further 34 port-like wines such as South African fortifieds or Douro fortified Muscatel.

I tasted 137 ports for the first time in 2016 the most surprising of which was Smith Woodhouse 1966. The best of the ports new to me were a Krohn 1900 colheita and a Tuke Holdsworth 1927, closely followed by a half bottle of Dow 1920. The most unusual wine new to me last year was a Real Companhia Velha Porto Quinado over 60 year tawny - I've read about but never tried a quinado port before.

The oldest port I tasted in 2016 was from 1827. The age profile of the ports which had a vintage associated with them was:
0-10 years - 100
11-20 years - 52
21-30 years - 38
31-40 years - 72
41-50 years - 77
51-60 years - 50
61-70 years - 11
71-80 years - 10
81-90 years - 12
91-100 years - 4
101-150 years - 6
>150 years - 2

The wine I tasted most often in 2016 were Fonseca 1985 and Graham 1970 (both 9 times) followed by Fonseca 1963 and Warre 1970 (both 6 times). The vintages I tasted most often in 2016 were 1970 (36 times), 1966 (27 times) and 1963 / 1985 (both 26 times). The shippers tasted most frequently in 2016 were Graham (47 times), Quinta do Noval (44 times) and Fonseca (35 times).

The profile of wines tasted in 2016 is similar to the profile of wines across the entire 4,000+ tasting notes in my database which has the most frequently featured shipper as Graham (364 times), Taylor (326 times) and Warre (316 times). The most frequent vintages are 1970 (318 times), 1963 (256 times) and 1985 (210 times). The wines I have tasted most often are Fonseca 1985 (41 times), Graham 1970 (40 times) and Warre 1970 (38 times).

The wines I was most impressed by in 2016 (and I will update my footer soon!) were a bottle of Cockburn 1908 (99 points), Phil's bottle of Cockburn 1912 at the Xmas offline (98 points) and the glass of Scion I had at the Yeatman in June (also 98 points). The remaining profile of points I awarded to the ports I tried in 2016 was as follows:
97 - 8 times
96 - 1 time
95 - 25 times
94 - 33 times
93 - 33 times
92 - 45 times
91 - 41 times
90 - 44 times
89 - 47 times
88 - 48 times
87 - 48 times
86 - 31 times
85 - 28 times
84 - 23 times
83 - 7 times
82 - 4 times
81 - 4 times
80 - 1 time
79 - 0 times
78 - 2 times
76 - 1 time
68 - 1 time
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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DRT
Fonseca 1966
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

uncle tom wrote:my cellar gains one bottle year of maturation every 92 minutes.
AHB wrote:The bottles in my cellar gain a year of bottle age every 12 months.
I can't quite work out whether or not these statements are contradictory of if AHB is just being his cheeky self :D
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Andy Velebil
Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Andy Velebil »

DRT wrote:
uncle tom wrote:my cellar gains one bottle year of maturation every 92 minutes.
AHB wrote:The bottles in my cellar gain a year of bottle age every 12 months.
I can't quite work out whether or not these statements are contradictory of if AHB is just being his cheeky self :D
Depends on what calendar he's using :mrgreen:
JB vintage
Quinta do Noval LBV
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by JB vintage »

DRT wrote: 20:29 Fri 06 Jan 2017 Do you have any evidence that the Vesuvio 1963 is a true vintage port? I'm sure others here would be interested in that if it is true.
There is no indication whatsoever that it is not a vintage, see photo. I still have one in my cellar.
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DRT
Fonseca 1966
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by DRT »

WOW! Very interesting.

I think AHB (also vintage 1963) is now your new best friend! :wink:
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
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Alex Bridgeman
Fonseca 1966
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Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

It's nearly that time of year again...
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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Alex Bridgeman
Fonseca 1966
Posts: 15922
Joined: 12:41 Mon 25 Jun 2007
Location: Berkshire, UK

Re: Pointless Statistics

Post by Alex Bridgeman »

Another year's worth of pointless statistics, as much for my benefit as for anyone else's so I can see how things have changed over the last 12 months.

At the end of this year, I have a cellar which is composed of:
90.8% Port (91% last year)
3.4% Bordeaux (3.5%)
1.2% Champagne (1.5%)
0.9% Australian (1.0%)
0.8% South African (0.5%)
0.7% Spain (0.5%)
2.2% Other (2.0%), each less than 0.5% individually (including English, Hungarian, US, NZ, Lebanese, Portuguese, Chilean)

I added 209 (116) bottles of Port to the cellar this year. I have no idea of their average age (42 years). The oldest added was from 1870 (1887) and the youngest from 2015.

Using the 21 year rule, 64% (62%) of my port is ready for drinking, implying that 2% of my cellar comes from the 1997 vintage.

The average age of the port in my cellar is 34 years and 2 days (34 years, 185 days).

89% (88%) of the undrawn port corks I own are in 75cl bottles, 7% (8%) in half bottles or smaller and 4% (4%) magnum or larger. 67% (69%) of the containers hold vintage port (which includes Quinta do Noval but excludes Quinta do Vesuvio), 26% (25%) hold Single Quinta Vintage Port (including Quinta do Vesuvio), 5% (5%) hold LBV, 1% (1%) hold crusted and 2% (1%) hold other stuff. I own 9 (3) bottles of port which would be considered colheita port under current regulations.

The shippers making up the largest share of my port cellar are Quinta do Vesuvio (14%, was 15%), Graham (9%, was 8%), Warre (8%, was 7%) and Fonseca (7%, was 8%). Looking only at the port ready for drinking the picture changes slightly to be Warre (10%, was 9%), Fonseca (9%, was 10%), Graham (9%, was 9%) and Vesuvio (9%, was 8%).

8% (8%) of my port is from the 2011 vintage with another 8% (8%) from 1963, 6% (6%) is from 1994.

Pointless statistics on my tasting notes will follow later.
Top Ports in 2024: Niepoort 1900 Colheita, b.1971. A near perfect Port.

2025: Quevedo 1972 Colheita, b.2024. Just as good as Niepoort 1900!
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