1972 Port

[Linz]

I wanted to buy a 1972 port for a friend who is 50 next year. I have no idea about port but the following is available - what would people recommend please

Dows - £289
Offley - £289
Sandeman- £380
Taylor’s - £385

[MigSU]

A very unfortunate vintage year. I honestly wouldn't buy any of them, especially not at those prices. But if I had to, really really had to, I suppose I'd get the... Taylor's?
But I'll let someone more knowledgeable than me take a swing at this unfortunate reverse Sophie's choice. A Sophie's choice if she didn't like any of her children.

[JacobH]

The 1972 vintage is somewhat infamous for a contaminated / corrupt supply chain resulting in some of the Ports being fortified by an industrial alcohol rather than the traditional flavourless grape brandy (“aguardente”). I’ve tried a few over the years which have all been disappointing, apart from a Dow. The Taylor’s is, I think, a Single Quinta Vintage Port from Quinta de Vargellas rather than a full Vintage. Have a look at the tasting notes here.

At those prices, if I were looking for a present with a “50” on it, I might get a 50-year-old Madeira. Or if I were looking for a decent Port of about that age, I’d get a 1970 (which was the vintage of the decade and a classic year).

[MigSU]

A 50 y.o. Madeira is an excellent idea, Jacob. It'd be cheaper and a much better wine.

[winesecretary]

I wouldn't buy 1972 VP, the chances of it being good are relatively low.

1970 port is mainly bottled in 1972 which might be enough of a link. And, it's cheaper.

Or there is the 1972 Graham Single Harvest Tawny which will be reliably good but prices for that seem very high now.

I would probably buy 1972 Armagnac (several available for not enormous money) or the splendid 1972 Lemorton Calvados

Or Madeira as MigSU, suggests but it is not a wonderful year for that. There's a 1972 Blandy Malmsey of that vintage but it's not their greatest period. I have not had the 1972 Barbeito wine. You could buy the Henriques 50 year old Tinta Negra Mole though, that's quite special.

[Linz]

Thank you all for your feedback, it is a lot of money if it’s not going to taste good. I will have a rethink.
Thanks for your alternative suggestions, much appreciated

[Doggett]

As a 1972 boy… to be sure of success as a gift I think there are two ways to go. The best option is the already mentioned Graham’s Single Harvest Colheita tawny port which is amongst the best of the Colheitas and one I had earlier this year was magnificent. If not go for a 1970 vintage port that will have been bottled in 1972. 1970 was a wonderful year for VP and it nearly always shows well from any producer. I am sure they would enjoy either.

[nac]

I wanted to buy a 1972 port for a friend who is 50 next year. I have no idea about port but the following is available - what would people recommend please

Dows - £289
Offley - £289
Sandeman- £380
Taylor’s - £385

I picked up a bottle of the Offley 1972 from a reputable wine merchant for £72 in May (this year), so you don't necessarily need to pay these sort of prices.

However, would equally suggest that a 1970, bottled in 1972, might be a better bet.

[Glenn E.]

You could also get a bottle of the Ste. Eufemia Special Reserve White Port. I've most commonly heard that it is a 1973 Colheita Branco, but there's also some discussion claiming that it's a 1972, or that it's in fact both blended together.

But as nac said, the easiest answer would be to get a 1970 VP bottled in 1972 (which would be most of them).

[Alex Bridgeman]

I disagree with most of you! While 1972 might not have been the best of Port vintages, I have drunk quite a few bottles with pleasure. And there is definitely something romantic for a Port lover to drink a Port from the year of their birth.

Take a look at www.wine-searcher.com to see what 1972 Vintage Ports are available and at what price. Consider buying a month’s subscription as there are often other, cheaper, retailers who appear to subscribers. (You have to sign up to auto renew the monthly subscription and then email to cancel. I’ve done this a few times and they are quite good about it.)

Of the wines mentioned, Dow is the one I’ve enjoyed the most, Offley is the one most often seen but the Graham Single Harvest Tawny is a fantastic wine and would be my recommendation.

[PhilW]

I have to agree with the majority, that in general I not would pay the current anniversary prices for a 1972 vintage port with the general quality being so poor and high chance of expensive disappointment. There is one potential exception for me - the Rebello Valente 1972; I've only had it once, as part of a vertical of Rebello Valente, where it showed very well. Usually it would be reasonably priced, if you come across it (it's not common).

If your friend likes the tawny style, then the Graham 1972 single harvest tawny is excellent and would be my choice. If the ruby style then it would be the Rebello Valente 1972 if available, and if not then any of the excellent 1970 ports bottled in 1972.

[Doggett]

Having also been lucky enough to have a glass from that same Rabello Valente 1972, I would agree it was most lovely and would be the best VP of the vintage I have tasted so far. Unfortunately it was nac’s last bottle of this and there is no more from where it came. So if anyone sees it up for sale or auction, please let me know so we can try and secure one for a 1972 horizontal next year.

[Andy Velebil]

Are there a few decent 1972 VP's, yes. Is it worth paying a lot for them, no. Try and find a Colheita (Single Harvest Tawny / Vintage Tawny) from 1972 which will offer much better experience for the price.

[Linz]

I can only find the grahams 1972 Single Harvest colheita Tawny Port on a site called vintage wine and port it £455 for 75cl bottle and presentation box.

Is this what I should expect to pay?

[PhilW]

I can only find the grahams 1972 Single Harvest colheita Tawny Port on a site called vintage wine and port it £455 for 75cl bottle and presentation box.

Is this what I should expect to pay?

That sounds about right; it's certainly not cheap, but in this case you'd be getting a premium colheita for your money, whereas with the other '72 vintage ports we've been discussing you'd be getting an average/poor port for most of the same amount. The alternative of a '70 vintage port bottled in '72 would also get you a premium vintage port (in the ruby style, rather than the tawny style) for £100-180 for a good brand in excellent condition.

[Linz]

Thank you, appreciate your help and advise

[Doggett]

Is this what I should expect to pay?

It is a premium price, but for a premium bottle of Port. If it is within budget then the important thing is that it is a fantastic Port that won’t disappoint or have the quality risk that a VP from the same vintage may have. Whatever you decide I hope that the 50th celebrations go well, enjoy!

[Linz]

Well to me it’s crazy money for a bottle of anything haha but he’s only 50 once and he would like it (I think) so that’s all that matters
Thank you

[Glenn E.]

To be clear, £455 for a 75cl bottle is highway robbery. But they can get away with it both because Ports from 1972 are extremely rare, and because Graham's Single Harvest Tawny line has been pretty consistently excellent. An excellent Port from an extremely rare vintage released for 50th Anniversaries is going to be markedly more expensive than "normal" pricing for similarly good Ports from easily obtained vintages.

As an example, the 1974 Barros Colheita in the special edition 25.Abril bottling can be found for under $100. You can get it at Garrafeira Nacional in Lisbon, which is not known for good prices, for $110. I can get it here in the US for around $150. And it is also an excellent Tawny Port, though sadly not from the year you're looking for.

[MigSU]

Glenn speaks the truth.

[Doggett]

To be clear, £455 for a 75cl bottle is highway robbery. But they can get away with it both because Ports from 1972 are extremely rare, and because Graham's Single Harvest Tawny line has been pretty consistently excellent. An excellent Port from an extremely rare vintage released for 50th Anniversaries is going to be markedly more expensive than "normal" pricing for similarly good Ports from easily obtained vintages.

As an example, the 1974 Barros Colheita in the special edition 25.Abril bottling can be found for under $100. You can get it at Garrafeira Nacional in Lisbon, which is not known for good prices, for $110. I can get it here in the US for around $150. And it is also an excellent Tawny Port, though sadly not from the year you're looking for.

A fairer comparison would be to compare the latest Graham’s single harvest release, the 1974 which wine searcher currently has at approx £ 335 inc tax. Graham’s have pitched themselves at the premium end of the Colheita/Single Harvest market and the prices are moving upwards all the time accordingly. I would venture a guess that in 22/23 months time when these have sold through a bit and we get closer to the 50th anniversary market for 1974, that the retail price is above the £455 that the 1972 is. I think the days of cheap prices for quality old colheitas is drawing to a close now that the awareness of what wonderful Ports they are, is increasing all the time and the stocks are constantly reducing.

Obviously it is a lot of money to spend on a single bottle, albeit a premium quality wine from 50 year ago that is exceptional. But if you looked at premium Rhône, Bordeaux, Burgundy or Napa bottles that were of a short supply limited production, guaranteed to be in great condition and from a top producer, would you fancy you chances of getting a bottle for less than £ 500?

[Glenn E.]

A fairer comparison would be to compare the latest Graham’s single harvest release, the 1974 which wine searcher currently has at approx £ 335 inc tax.

I disagree... comparing one of Graham's prices with another of Graham's prices isn't "fair" at all. Comparing their prices with their competition's prices is how you determine whether or not their prices are in line with market trends.

I understand what Graham is trying to do, but the reality is that their Single Harvest Tawnies are not better than their competition's. Graham's tawnies have improved dramatically over the last 10 years, but all that's done is catch them up (mostly). Taylor is trying to do the same thing with their 50 year old releases. That's not worthy of extreme pricing, at least not to me. I think Taylor's prices have been pushing the limit, and Graham's prices are 50% higher than Taylor's. Just to demonstrate how crazy these prices are, one can find a 1937 Kopke Colheita for the price of this Graham. That's 35 years older and with a well-known and well-established pedigree.

I don't think you can reasonably compare Port prices to any other wine, nor do I want to be able to do so. Port is its own market, and while any reasonable businessperson would prefer to be able to charge Bordeaux prices for their wines, the market won't bear it for Port.

[winesecretary]

Glenn, I think one can reasonably compare the prices of different types of port of the same sort of age from different houses. Alex rightly pulled you and I up the other week when we were expiating on the £800+ tag of the 1940 Graham (which is a truly astonishingly good wine). Price is on a par with VPs of the early 1940s, retail, so fair enough. The problem with the Graham 1972 is that it is twice the price of other ports of the same sort of age; and even the same type of port of the same sort of age (VWAP had some Taylor 1970 Colheita for £165 in the sale yesterday; I was sorely tempted).

[Doggett]

I think the comparison of market prices for two Single Harvests from ‘weak’ vintages by the same producer - one of which is right in the cusp of peak Anniversary market appeal and one that is a couple of years off, to be a fair one.

I agree that the prices are high and more than I would want to pay or afford, but I think Port has been undervalued for years and there is a bit of catch up in the market happening. This is especially true in the Tawny markets of Colheitas and Aged Tawnies. As we all know, rightly or wrongly, the market price is dictated by the willingness of someone to pay it. All the efforts of the Port producers to get a wider audience for Aged Tawnies and Colheitas, combined with tapping into Anniversary markets is leading to where we are now. What was the price for a Sandeman 40YO ten years ago compared to now?

I think we can be guilty of comparing prices to what they were five or ten or more years ago and bench marking them to that, remembering what amazing value Ports we could get before this new trend for premium Single Harvests shifted the dial. Unfortunately for us, Graham’s and Taylor’s will be dragging the prices up of all the other Producers too, and the price of the Barros 1974 will be far above is current level in a couple of years as will the Kopke ‘37 if there is any left.

[winesecretary]

Simon, the wine buying market is the wine buying market. But, most of us don't just buy one thing - wine is substitutable. To illustrate - in the eighties I bought mainly claret. In the nineties and noughties I bought mainly madeira, burgundy, mosel and rioja. Now I am buying mainly port, and some claret again. I buy what is unfashionable but good. I'm not buying these single harvest tawnies, because for the same money I can buy a case of good claret. I accept the wines are good. But with rare exceptions they are not wines for aficionados. They are wines for anniversary buyers.

[Glenn E.]

I think the 1940 Graham is nearly equally overpriced and unreasonable - look at the above price for a 1937 Kopke again for comparison.

Kopke has historically been among the best at managing price vs sales volume. They have a legendary reputation to protect, and to do so they need to maintain stocks of old wines not just for this generation and the next, but for the ones after that as well. I don't like their pricing because it is very much at the high end of what I can tolerate, but I respect what they're doing because they're doing it well. They ride the high end of the market and have been doing so ever since I've been drinking Port.

Taylor and Graham aren't expanding the market for Tawny Port with their pricing, unless you consider trophy buyers to be an expanded market. And let's be honest about it - £455/$600 for a 75cl bottle of a 50 year old Port is trophy pricing, absent the scarcity of Port from that particular year. And even with the scarcity it is very much out of whack when comparison shopped - I just purchased a 1971 Taylor Single Harvest Tawny, directly from Taylor's wine school at World of Wine (so not in any way discounted), for 255 EUR. That is equally as scarce as a 1972 and felt like a high but reasonable price for what it was. £455/$600 does not feel reasonable in any way, even if they're down to their last barrel. A price like that is for trophy hunters only, not for Port drinkers, and I think that bringing in trophy hunters does not help the market but rather harms it.

before this new trend for premium Single Harvests shifted the dial

That's just it - the only thing "premium" about these is their marketing and packaging. They aren't better Ports. Most of them are, in fact, pretty average for what they are.

Do you really want to be paying that much of a "premium" for marketing and packaging?

[Doggett]

before this new trend for premium Single Harvests shifted the dial

That's just it - the only thing "premium" about these is their marketing and packaging. They aren't better Ports. Most of them are, in fact, pretty average for what they are.

Do you really want to be paying that much of a "premium" for marketing and packaging?

Fair point, well made. When saying ‘premium’ I suppose I am including the marketing and packaging too and not just the quality of the juice. Sometimes this is a welcome enhancement to the overall product and sometimes a waste. And you are right to point out the quality of Kopke and many other producers that as yet don’t have the name recognition (at least in the UK) to dictate the market the way the Symingtons and TFP can.

I also agree with you that a significant reason for these market changes are ‘Trophy hunters’, which may previously have been far fewer for Port than other wine categories, but something that seems to be on the increase across the board. Not great for the true lovers of drinking what is inside rather than just owning it, but it is a reality. I think most of us has a touch of the Trophy Hunter in us if we are honest, we just don’t like it if others don’t over pay, corner the market and limit our opportunities to try the wines.

[JacobH]

And you are right to point out the quality of Kopke and many other producers that as yet don’t have the name recognition (at least in the UK) to dictate the market the way the Symingtons and TFP can.

It’s more of a “no longer” with Kopke since they were one of the most prominent shippers in England in the 19th Century. I’m not actually sure how they slipped down the tables (as it were). Perhaps phylloxera hit them particularly badly?

What was the price for a Sandeman 40YO ten years ago compared to now?

The prices for the tawnies with an indication of age seem to be all over the place these days. Some seem to have leapt in price. For example I am struggling to find a bottle of the Niepoort 20 year old for less than £60. Average price seems to be about £65 to £70. That seems very high to me. The Ramos Pinto Quinta de Bom Retiro 20 year old is generally over £50 a bottle which again feels like a big leap upwards. On the other hand, the Noval 40-year-old is available from loads of places in the £90-£100 range which is what I think it has pretty much cost over the last 10 years.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I often seem to be the outlier in discussions of pricing - which I consider a totally separate topic from whether I would be a willing buyer.

As Simon says above, the right price for a bottle of wine is the price the market will pay. I believe the 1972 sold out at the “ridiculous” price being asked some months ago. It’s only retailers like Vintage Wine & Port who bought reasonable stocks who have any left.

If a product sells out at a high price, how can that price be too high? Every time a product sells out, why wouldn’t you push up the price of the replacement. What we’re seeing is Port moving up to a new norm.

The fact that you can get a Barros 1972 and a Burmester 1937 for the same price is probably a reflection of how well known the two houses are in their markets rather than a reflection of the quality of the wines. But gradually even the prices from the other houses will go up. Look at Royal Oporto’s recent 1927 Anniversary Release for over £1500. They’re only able to do that because of the precedent set by Niepoort, Taylor, Graham and so on. Mourão’s prices have gone through the roof; Sogevinus will probably follow.

I strongly suspect that we are seeing the end of the prices which used to enable us to drink well and drink (relatively) cheaply.

[MigSU]

I often seem to be the outlier in discussions of pricing - which I consider a totally separate topic from whether I would be a willing buyer.

This is very true. From time to time I try to remind myself that there is a distinction between "fair price for what the product is" and "how much I'd be willing to spend for that particular product".

The fact that you can get a Barros 1972 and a Burmester 1937 for the same price is probably a reflection of the market knowledge of the two houses rather than a reflection of the quality of the wines.

But with this I disagree. We all know that product quality is far from the only factor in deciding how much one is willing to pay for something.
How can 'the market' be unaware of possibly the best and most prestigious Port house for tawnies, particularly colheitas - Kopke - yet be willing to pay hundreds and hundreds of pounds for a tawny from a, until recently, relatively minor player in the tawny game - Graham's?

What Graham's did with their colheitas is what one would colloquially call "hype". Snazzy packaging and image, and a massive media and marketing strategy. And a quality wine, to be certain. But not one above its competitors. And I hate to be seemingly gatekeeping, here, but I have to agree with the above posters on prize hunters.

But I should stop writing, as this whole conversation has reminded me of another bone of contention I have: how the advent of premium VPs has, sneakily, decreased the quality of the 'regular' VPs without a corresponding lowering of price (the premium grapes that now go into premium VP used to go into the regular.....and now they don't). But that's another topic, which is why I should stop writing.

[Alex Bridgeman]

For various reasons I've been taking a look at the current prices for First Growth claret. The increase in price for those over the last 12 months has been eyewatering. For example, you could buy Chateau Mouton-Rothschild 1982 for £600 per bottle this time last year (in bond). If you want to buy the same bottle today it will set you back £880 (also in bond).

Perhaps the inflation in our world is not so bad after all!

[winesecretary]

Is it that Kopke 1937 is an ordinary good and that Graham 1974 is a veblen good? Is that what is causing our (largely shared) slight unease?

[MigSU]

Quite possibly.

[JacobH]

For various reasons I've been taking a look at the current prices for First Growth claret. The increase in price for those over the last 12 months has been eyewatering. For example, you could buy Chateau Mouton-Rothschild 1982 for £600 per bottle this time last year (in bond). If you want to buy the same bottle today it will set you back £880 (also in bond).

Perhaps the inflation in our world is not so bad after all!

This has encouraged me to open George Saintsbury’s 1920 “Notes on a Cellar-Book” again. Not only was he drinking as much first-growth claret, some quite old, as Port but he also comments:

One thing may be noticed before turning away from a wine on which I could write a dozen or a score of these chapters, and that is the extraordinary drop in prices which this book of mine shows [... B]efore I left Edinburgh, the headquarters at one time of claret-drinkers, it was practically useless to open a magnum of claret for a dinner party of twelve or fourteen people, unless you selected your guests on purpose. And as for the price, taking the same growths at the same age [...] I should say that there was a drop of at least twenty-five per cent. between [the 1870s and 1893s] and a further drop of more than the same extent between [1893 and 1899 / 1900]. Even now, when all wine is at abnormal and preposterous prices, I see hardly anything, in the better classes of claret, quoted at figures parallel even to those which obtained thirty years ago.

[Glenn E.]

Is it that Kopke 1937 is an ordinary good and that Graham 1974 is a veblen good? Is that what is causing our (largely shared) slight unease?

I had never heard that term before, but having now googled it I would have to agree. What I've been calling a trophy Port is in fact a veblen good.

I also can't help but compare that concept to people like Paris Hilton and the Kardashians, who are famous for being famous. How that starts appears to be complicated and involve a lot of luck, but once it gets going it seems to be entirely a hype machine behind which there is no actual value.

That's what I fear when I talk about trophy Ports. Their value as a drink gets removed as they become more expensive simply because they're famous for being expensive. At some point the producers could literally put basic Tawny in the bottle and continue to sell it as a trophy Port and no one would notice because no one would actually be drinking those trophies anymore, anyway. It worked for Rudy, after all.

I think that's a bad thing.

[Alex Bridgeman]

That is an interesting point. Is a Port drunk less often, the more expensive it is? Have either of the magnums of 1863 Niepoort which Dirk sold for €100,000 been drunk?

[JacobH]

I find it entertaining that in one thread we are discussing whether Port is overpriced by references to a £455 bottle of 1972 Graham’s colheita whereas in another thread we are sharing offers for the 2013 Graham’s Crusted at £15 (price before tax: £9.52!). If nothing else it demonstrates the Port market is completely mad in the UK these days...

[rich_n]

Is it that Kopke 1937 is an ordinary good and that Graham 1974 is a veblen good? Is that what is causing our (largely shared) slight unease?

I would say the issue here is the concern that while a specific vintage or colheita from a specific producer will have minimal impact on our port purchasing and consumption, the risk is that all vintage port shifts into the "desirable because it's desirable" category and starts to become unaffordable to the mere mortal.

I have very little issue with Graham Single Harvest being priced beyond my means because I have plenty of other options in terms of quality colheitas from other producers, but if all vintage suddenly went that way then it would restrict my choices.

[MigSU]

Is it that Kopke 1937 is an ordinary good and that Graham 1974 is a veblen good? Is that what is causing our (largely shared) slight unease?

I would say the issue here is the concern that while a specific vintage or colheita from a specific producer will have minimal impact on our port purchasing and consumption, the risk is that all vintage port shifts into the "desirable because it's desirable" category and starts to become unaffordable to the mere mortal.

I have very little issue with Graham Single Harvest being priced beyond my means because I have plenty of other options in terms of quality colheitas from other producers, but if all vintage suddenly went that way then it would restrict my choices.

Quite right, this sums up my fears very well. A cascading effect would be very bad news for us regular folk.

[winesecretary]

If all vintage port shifts into the "desirable because it's desirable" category, and starts to become unaffordable to the mere mortal, then in the worst case scenario we will all be sitting on an asset we can sell to fund our retirements. But there would need to be a global perception shift, akin to that which has happened over the past decade with burgundy, to soak up the millions of bottles of reasonably priced VP that are sitting around waiting to be drunk. There are, to me, no signs of that happening.

[rich_n]

If all vintage port shifts into the "desirable because it's desirable" category, and starts to become unaffordable to the mere mortal, then in the worst case scenario we will all be sitting on an asset we can sell to fund our retirements. But there would need to be a global perception shift, akin to that which has happened over the past decade with burgundy, to soak up the millions of bottles of reasonably priced VP that are sitting around waiting to be drunk. There are, to me, no signs of that happening.

I agree, which is why I don't care too much while these are relatively isolated products that see super-premium pricing. Most of the port producing world seems unable to persuade the general drinking public to see port the way most of us do.

[Glenn E.]

If all vintage port shifts into the "desirable because it's desirable" category, and starts to become unaffordable to the mere mortal, then in the worst case scenario we will all be sitting on an asset we can sell to fund our retirements. But there would need to be a global perception shift, akin to that which has happened over the past decade with burgundy, to soak up the millions of bottles of reasonably priced VP that are sitting around waiting to be drunk. There are, to me, no signs of that happening.

I see it starting, though it is slow. The introduction of "super premium" Ports such as my preciouses Graham's The Stone Terraces is part of the process. Release price of Vintage Port has been creeping up steadily over the last 2 decades as well.

The process has to be slow in general because Vintage Port is such a long-lived product. But that isn't true for Tawny Port, referring to the speed of the process not the life of the product. There are defined, limited quantities of old Tawny Ports and the producers can easily hold back stock (and talk about future generations while doing so) to increase scarcity and therefore prices. Once the prices go up, trickle out a little bit more.

The trick while doing this is to somehow also increase demand, which is what all of these premium bottlings are designed to do. Get the name out, establish the prestige, and then get the Millennial and Zoomer influencers on board.