Interesting post on Oscar's blog

[smisse]

I found this post from Oscar really interesting:
http://quevedoportwine.com/events/two-c ... /#comments

Now I am wondering if there are any ports known that are not created around the "top - grapes" and what there qualitative status is compared to the normal port.
Basically are there ports made from non recommended grapes that are truly outstanding?

list of grapes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Port_wine_grapes

In addition what about ports from non-native grapes. e.g. like SuperTuscans in Italy. Has this been tried within the Douro?
Surely we have fortified wines around the world but would these other fortified wines be better if they are grown in the Douro?

[g-man]

You might want to give concord grapes a shot (a trip to the local super market and buy some Welches) and think about what it may taste like fortified.

"In addition what about ports from non-native grapes. e.g. like SuperTuscans in Italy. Has this been tried within the Douro?
Surely we have fortified wines around the world but would these other fortified wines be better if they are grown in the Douro?"

I've always been a fan of, grow what you can and dont try what you can't.

Case in point is all of these Long Island/Canadian cabernet francs. Does it grow? sure, does it taste good? no.
They are tannic, very vegetal and can be used for varnish.

There may be some grapes though, i can see perhaps making an interesting blend for port. The monastrel grape might be a good structural grape to be used instead of tourega nacional, but that might be blasphemy.

There are also cases where some grapes simply are the same type. Tinta Roriz is basically the tempranillo grape.

[smisse]

You might want to give concord grapes a shot (a trip to the local super market and buy some Welches) and think about what it may taste like fortified.

Actually would love to try it but I can guess the outcome...

[Glenn E.]

You might want to give concord grapes a shot (a trip to the local super market and buy some Welches) and think about what it may taste like fortified.

Already been done, it's called Manischewitz Wine.

[SushiNorth]

Actually, let me tell you first hand that the concord ports i tasted in the fingerlakes were just awful, and the other grapes they tried using did no better.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I found this post from Oscar really interesting:
http://quevedoportwine.com/events/two-c ... /#comments

Now I am wondering if there are any ports known that are not created around the "top - grapes" and what there qualitative status is compared to the normal port.
Basically are there ports made from non recommended grapes that are truly outstanding?

list of grapes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Port_wine_grapes

If I recall, only the official grapes can be used for port production. Most likely there are some field blends that contain approved but non-recommended grapes. I don't know of anyone who makes port only from legal grapes that are not the recommended grapes.

In addition what about ports from non-native grapes. e.g. like SuperTuscans in Italy. Has this been tried within the Douro?
Surely we have fortified wines around the world but would these other fortified wines be better if they are grown in the Douro?

Other than a little muscato, I don't remember seeing any fortified wines from the Douro region that are not Port (and therefore made from approved grape varieties). Noval are growing small quantities of Shiraz and Cabernet and Niepoort is growing various non-native white grapes, but these are all being used for production of table wine and not fortified wine. Interestingly, wine made from non-native varieties of grape do not qualify to be called DOC wines. Perhaps someone, one-day, will experiment with a fortified wine from non-native grapes - but we may have to wait a long time given the quality of the existing production.

Even "port" in South Africa is predominantly produced from the recommended Portuguese port grape varieties - Touriga Nacional, Sousao, Tinta Barroca, Franca and Roriz and I think I remember hearing that some of these are now being used for fortified production in parts of California.

[Dom Symington]

Some of these comments are getting dangerously close to Thunderbird! our US friends will certainly know what that means!
Port is only allowed to be produced from recognised varietals and no "international" varietals are permitted.
Field blends will definately contain more than the "choosen 7". T Nacional, T Franca, T Roriz, T Barroca, T Cão, T Amarela & Souzão.

The 10 Ha. "120" vineyard at Vale de Malhadas, although predominantly Tinta Roriz has a small but signifcant percentage of Tinto do Bragão, Mourisco and Rabigato amongst others. They are not great varietals and the vineyard is set for a change as soon as out TN and TF are "of age" and in full production. We haven't yet decided what to replant it with but we'll look to increase the range and complexity of the varietals on the property.

[smisse]

Some of these comments are getting dangerously close to Thunderbird! our US friends will certainly know what that means!

Now I know as well what it means : http://www.bumwine.com/tbird.html

Interesting to read that you are attempting to increase range and complexity of varietals. Do you also experiment with blends from the remaining 105 varietals? Does this occasionally still lead to changes in your final blends and ranges or can one consider that the best port will always be made from the top 7 grapes?

[g-man]

old time american whipple from gallo.

[Dom Symington]

Hi smisse (!)
Essentially field blends are a mixture of a number of the douro varietals but certainly won't be all of them. Baisically all replanting in the Douro over the last 30 years or so has focused on the 7 plus possibly a few people have planted one or two more.
I think it would be extremely interesting to look at some additional variatetals, some clearly aren't much good but some may have slipped through the net when the last serious research was done in the '60's. Additionally we now also look for DOC (table wine) fruit and the origianl research was focused solely on Port ... interesting! But we'll have to wait a long time for any concrete results.

[g-man]

Actually, an idea would be to make an essencia like they do in tokaj.

package it in a small 375ml bottle and drink it via teaspoon.

Can I get the first bottle for the Idea? =)