First LBV

[ac-fast]

Maybe this subject has been discussed before.

Yesteday i was talking to a friend, and we talked about when the first LBV came on the market ???

Year ??

House ??

anyone

[DRT]

Many shippers, such as Noval, Cockburn, Dow and Ramos-Pinto experimented with LBV in the middle of the 20th century but the first LBV to be produced and marketed on a proper commercial basis was Taylor LBV 1965 which, I think, was first bottled and released in 1969.

[Andy Velebil]

The first "modern and filtered" LBV was Taylors as mentioned. From what I've heard they got the concept from another producer and tweeked it a bit into the filtered version.

That said, and as DRT pointed out, MANY producers have produced an LBV prior to this. Maybe not on a large or consistent commercial scale, but they were produced none the less and I think figuring out who exactly was the first would be quite difficult.

[RonnieRoots]

Roy once posted this exact question on his forum. The thread can be found here.

[ac-fast]

yes yes yes.... exact - 1927 Ramos Pinto Ivè read it in Oldenburgs book "port", but my friend said no. Now I can show this thread to him.... Thanks

[Glenn E.]

I think that the reason there is so much confusion is that the Producers are talking about different things when they claim to have been first.

Based on Roy's research, it appears that Ramos Pinto was the first to use the term in 1927. However, the term was not commonly used nor was it really a separate product category until Taylor released their 1965 LBV. So Ramos Pinto can claim to have invented the term and to have produced the first, while Taylor can claim to have invented the category.

[uncle tom]

JDAW's considerable researches indicate that the first merchant to offer 'Late bottled vintage' port to their customers was the Wine Society in the spring of 1964. This was Fonseca Q. Milieu 1958, believed bottled in the UK, also in 1964.

Whilst it was not that unusual for vintage ports to be bottled a little later than is current practice (and occasionally very much later) - the concept of LBV as being a different product to VP would appear to have had its genesis in 1964.

Tom

[Glenn E.]

Are there no archives at the IVDP? It seems like it should be a simple matter to check Ramos Pinto's claim to having registered the first LBV with them in 1927.

FWIW, Joao Nicolau de Almeida was asked about this during the Port Harvest Tour last fall and he confirmed that Ramos Pinto was the first.

[jdaw1]

1927

Prior to foundation of IVP.

[RonnieRoots]

Are there no archives at the IVDP? It seems like it should be a simple matter to check Ramos Pinto's claim to having registered the first LBV with them in 1927.

FWIW, Joao Nicolau de Almeida was asked about this during the Port Harvest Tour last fall and he confirmed that Ramos Pinto was the first.

Apparently they still had some stock of this a couple of years ago, because I once saw a bottle of this for sale in a Dutch store with a fairly recent label. I just didn't feel like paying 1500 euro for it...
But anyway, you can be sure it exists, I saw the proof.

[Glenn E.]

1927

Prior to foundation of IVP.

Correct, of course. We're talking about a 1927 LBV which would not have been bottled, nor registered were it not possible to do so, in 1927.

The 1927 Ramos Pinto LBV was undoubtably registered at a later date, presumably 1933 when the IVP was created. Those records are the ones that should be easy to find as long as the IVDP keeps an archive of such things.

RonnieRoots, does the bottle you have seen indicate when it was bottled? That might be a good starting point.

[uncle tom]

When did the IVP (as it used to be called) first recognise LBV as a variety of port?

That might be an easier question to get an answer to..!

Tom

[RonnieRoots]

RonnieRoots, does the bottle you have seen indicate when it was bottled? That might be a good starting point.

Most likely, but it's been years since I've seen it, so I don't remember. And the bottle is in Holland, and I'm not, so not that easy to check.