Another minor diversion

[PhilW]

Since there is no "right" answer to this, I can't save it for "one quiz at a time", so posting here. More of an idle thought really, and I've not had a go myself yet; what I was wondering was this:

Create a grid with a letter in each box. To create words you may start at any box, moving one space in any direction to reach the next letter, with no box being used more than once in each word. Using this method,
1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?
2. How about in a 4x4?

Example:

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FON
CES
ALM

contains Fonseca and Calem (accents ignored). I expect the 3x3 game will be pretty limited, but 4x4 might be an interesting challenge. Higher scores please?

[jdaw1]

Noting from your example that diagonal moves are allowed, and ignoring

no box being used more than once in each word

then

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KOD
PEW
RRA

contains Kopke, Dow, and Warre. If a null move were allowed, for the double-r, then there could be a spare space, perhaps allowing a fourth name.

[djewesbury]

Noting from your example that diagonal moves are allowed, and ignoring

no box being used more than once in each word

then

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KOD
PEW
RRA

contains Kopke, Dow, and Warre. If a null move were allowed, for the double-r, then there could be a spare space, perhaps allowing a fourth name.

Stop making up your own rules.

[DRT]

Stop making up your own rules.

The rules are owned by those participating in the game.

[djewesbury]

Stop making up your own rules.

The rules are owned by those participating in the game.

Someone gave us rules to use. If we just make up our own rules we aren't playing the same game.

[RAYC]

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DET
ZOF
WRC

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VAU
CRT
ZOF

Each have 4 names (assuming quintas which have been the subject of at least 1 SQVP release are allowed without the full "quinta d..." preceding it)

[RAYC]

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NOW
DAV
TUL

5 here...if a slight liberty is taken with one of the names (use of "commonly known as" rather than "full" name)

[DRT]

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NOW
DAV
TUL

5 here...if a slight liberty is taken with one of the names (use of "commonly known as" rather than "full" name)

Were you including DALVA in your 5?

[RAYC]

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NOW
DAV
TUL

5 here...if a slight liberty is taken with one of the names (use of "commonly known as" rather than "full" name)

Were you including DALVA in your 5?

No - i thought i was on to 6 initially...unfortunately that would require double use of the central "A".

[djewesbury]

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NOW
DAV
TUL

5 here...if a slight liberty is taken with one of the names (use of "commonly known as" rather than "full" name)

Feeling dense. Missing two of them. What is the T for?

[DRT]

I can see Dow, Noval, Tua and Vau.

[RAYC]

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NOW
DAV
TUL

5 here...if a slight liberty is taken with one of the names (use of "commonly known as" rather than "full" name)

Feeling dense. Missing two of them. What is the T for?

Noval
Nova
Dow
Tua
Vau

- Nova is obviously a shortened version of the much longer name - possibly controversial but commonly used on this site (eg: here, here, here and here by well established posters, and the website is quintanova.com, so i'm claiming!).

[djewesbury]

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NOW
DAV
TUL

5 here...if a slight liberty is taken with one of the names (use of "commonly known as" rather than "full" name)

Feeling dense. Missing two of them. What is the T for?

Noval
Nova
Dow
Tua
Vau

- Nova is obviously a shortened version of the much longer name - possibly controversial but commonly used on this site (eg: here, here, here and here by well established posters, and the website is quintanova.com, so i'm claiming!).

As you should. Excellent.

[DRT]

1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?

I call foul.

Vau and Tua are quintas that are used as part of a brand name by the port houses who own them, they are not port houses in themselves. Nova and Noval pass the test.

[djewesbury]

1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?

I call foul.

Vau and Tua are quintas that are used as part of a brand name by the port houses who own them, they are not port houses in themselves. Nova and Noval pass the test.

The rules are owned by those playing the game, no?

[DRT]

1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?

I call foul.

Vau and Tua are quintas that are used as part of a brand name by the port houses who own them, they are not port houses in themselves. Nova and Noval pass the test.

The rules are owned by those playing the game, no?

Yes, they are, but this is not an example of that.

JDAW suggested an alteration of the rules, which you grumbled about. RAYC (I believe) tried to play to the stated rules but fell into a trap.

[djewesbury]

1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?

I call foul.

Vau and Tua are quintas that are used as part of a brand name by the port houses who own them, they are not port houses in themselves. Nova and Noval pass the test.

The rules are owned by those playing the game, no?

Yes, they are, but this is not an example of that.

JDAW suggested an alteration of the rules, which you grumbled about. RAYC (I believe) tried to play to the stated rules but fell into a trap.

I see. Well then someone must arbitrate.

[DRT]

1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?

I call foul.

Vau and Tua are quintas that are used as part of a brand name by the port houses who own them, they are not port houses in themselves. Nova and Noval pass the test.

The rules are owned by those playing the game, no?

Yes, they are, but this is not an example of that.

JDAW suggested an alteration of the rules, which you grumbled about. RAYC (I believe) tried to play to the stated rules but fell into a trap.

I see. Well then someone must arbitrate.

Not necessary. You are wrong.

[DRT]

Also, JDAW was suggesting an alteration to the manner in which the letters may be used. He was not trying to change the fundamental nature of the question.

[djewesbury]

1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?

I call foul.

Vau and Tua are quintas that are used as part of a brand name by the port houses who own them, they are not port houses in themselves. Nova and Noval pass the test.

The rules are owned by those playing the game, no?

Yes, they are, but this is not an example of that.

JDAW suggested an alteration of the rules, which you grumbled about. RAYC (I believe) tried to play to the stated rules but fell into a trap.

I see. Well then someone must arbitrate.

Not necessary. You are wrong.

No sir, there is adequate scope for believing that Phil didn't mean to include minor bottlings (eg Vau) when he said 'port houses'. Or, you could just try and outdo Rob according to our interpretation of the rules?

[DRT]

there is adequate scope for believing that Phil didn't mean to include minor bottlings (eg Vau) when he said 'port houses'.

If you really believe that Phil is capable of being that illogical then I have to say the consequences for the universe could be exponential.

[djewesbury]

there is adequate scope for believing that Phil didn't mean to include minor bottlings (eg Vau) when he said 'port houses'.

If you really believe that Phil is capable of being that illogical then I have to say the consequences for the universe could be exponential.

WAA! WAA! WAA! WAA!
Intruder alert!

[RAYC]

1. What is the most port houses you can fit in a 3x3 grid?

I call foul.

Vau and Tua are quintas that are used as part of a brand name by the port houses who own them, they are not port houses in themselves. Nova and Noval pass the test.

Most of the "names" on the labels are nowadays "brands" rather than the producer. Exhibit (A) is the Symington stable: all (apart from Vesuvio / Capela / Roriz) are - so far as i am aware - technically produced by the "Symington Family Estates" legal entity that is named as the bottler in the label small-print.

[DRT]

there is adequate scope for believing that Phil didn't mean to include minor bottlings (eg Vau) when he said 'port houses'.

If you really believe that Phil is capable of being that illogical then I have to say the consequences for the universe could be exponential.

WAA! WAA! WAA! WAA!
Intruder alert!

Nothing to see here. Please move along!

[DRT]

Most of the "names" on the labels are nowadays "brands" rather than the producer. Exhibit (A) is the Symington stable: all (apart from Vesuvio / Capela / Roriz) are - so far as i am aware - technically produced by the "Symington Family Estates" legal entity that is named as the bottler in the label small-print.

Not true. The wines are made and owned by the individual shipping companies. They are bottled and shipped by SFE.

[djewesbury]

Most of the "names" on the labels are nowadays "brands" rather than the producer. Exhibit (A) is the Symington stable: all (apart from Vesuvio / Capela / Roriz) are - so far as i am aware - technically produced by the "Symington Family Estates" legal entity that is named as the bottler in the label small-print.

Not true. The wines are made and owned by the individual shipping companies. They are bottled and shipped by SFE.

Zzzzzzzz.........

[DRT]

Dow is a "port house".

Dow Quinta do Bomfim is a wine produced by the port house known as Dow.

[DRT]

Most of the "names" on the labels are nowadays "brands" rather than the producer. Exhibit (A) is the Symington stable: all (apart from Vesuvio / Capela / Roriz) are - so far as i am aware - technically produced by the "Symington Family Estates" legal entity that is named as the bottler in the label small-print.

Not true. The wines are made and owned by the individual shipping companies. They are bottled and shipped by SFE.

Zzzzzzzz.........

Shhhh! Can't you see I'm just getting him back for all that spurious nonsense about 1972?

[djewesbury]

Most of the "names" on the labels are nowadays "brands" rather than the producer. Exhibit (A) is the Symington stable: all (apart from Vesuvio / Capela / Roriz) are - so far as i am aware - technically produced by the "Symington Family Estates" legal entity that is named as the bottler in the label small-print.

Not true. The wines are made and owned by the individual shipping companies. They are bottled and shipped by SFE.

Zzzzzzzz.........

Shhhh! Can't you see I'm just getting him back for all that spurious nonsense about 1972?

ZZZZZZZZ kerplonk *falls out of bed*

[RAYC]

Dow is a "port house".

Dow Quinta do Bomfim is a wine produced by the port house known as Dow.

That's very ill-defined. "Dow" is the brand. Silva & Cosens LDA is the legal entity that owns the IP, potentially the Quintas (but who knows...?). "Symington Family Estates" is the legal entity that is the "bottler" (somehow even for ports that were bottled before it existed...but nowadays at the Quinta do Sol facility) and distributes the port.

"Port house" essentially means nothing if you actually look at the way these groups are structured.

[DRT]

"Dow" is the brand. Silva & Cozens LDA is the legal entity that owns the IP

I'll give you that one. A bad example from me, and one that is quite unique in the trade.

"Port house" essentially means nothing if you actually look at the way these groups are structured.

I disagree. It is a very easy leap to interpret "port house" as the primary name of the brand. Fonseca, Taylor, Warre, Vesuvio, Noval, Sandeman, Ferriera, etc. The sub-brands of those companies are not "port houses". The groups to which most of these "port houses" now belong have never sought to establish themselves as a brand in the context of individual wines.

[RAYC]

Is there a term of art for a major diversion from a minor diversion?

[djewesbury]

Is there a term of art for a major diversion from a minor diversion?

I'm sure there's a Greek word for it. Paraphrasis? Hyperperissologia?
(I've made those up.)
Perhaps "Turnbullism" is best.

[PhilW]

I'm impressed with RAYC's ingenuity; I'm quite happy with the use of the quinta name by itself when the wine is sold independently as Quinta do/da XXX, though I think that Vau and Tua fail that test. However, building on RAYC's example, we could have:

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NOW
DAV
MAL

to get 5 (Noval, Nova, Dow, Dalva, Adam) if "Adam" is allowable

[DRT]

I think it would need to be Adams, not Adam.

[PhilW]

I think it would need to be Adams, not Adam.

My gut would agree, but we use Warre and Graham, rather than Warre's and Graham's; I'm not sure what Adam/Adams/Adam's says on the bottle though; I noted that our tasting note index uses Adam in 4/5 cases (ref) which is why I though there might be a chance of acceptability.

[djewesbury]

I think it would need to be Adams, not Adam.

My gut would agree, but we use Warre and Graham, rather than Warre's and Graham's; I'm not sure what Adam/Adams/Adam's says on the bottle though; I noted that our tasting note index uses Adam in 4/5 cases (ref) which is why I though there might be a chance of acceptability.

Obviously the central position in the grid needs to be occupied by an apostrophe

[DRT]

I think it would need to be Adams, not Adam.

My gut would agree, but we use Warre and Graham, rather than Warre's and Graham's; I'm not sure what Adam/Adams/Adam's says on the bottle though; I noted that our tasting note index uses Adam in 4/5 cases (ref) which is why I though there might be a chance of acceptability.

The bottle we had with Alex says "Adams" on the label. I had it in mind that this was a port shipping company named after a man with the surname Adams rather than Adam. So the possessive would be Adams's.

[PhilW]

The bottle we had with Alex[/url] says "Adams" on the label. I had it in mind that this was a port shipping company named after a man with the surname Adams rather than Adam.

In that case Adam would not be allowed in this quiz, so still only scoring 4, and tasting note index should be updated (in either case since it uses both) to the determined correct version.

[DRT]

I will check my books when I get home. That label could be a crime.

[PhilW]

I will check my books when I get home. That label could be a crime.

Any news?

[DRT]

I will check my books when I get home. That label could be a crime.

Any news?

Sorry, forgot, and not near my books until Friday.

[DRT]

I can only find a few references to this shipper in books and all of them say "Adams".

[PhilW]

I can only find a few references to this shipper in books and all of them say "Adams".

thanks for the confirmation. Proposed 5 invalid then, 4 still highest 3x3. Tasting note index will also need correction.