Oldest bottles
- djewesbury
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Oldest bottles
This summer we tasted a 1795 Madeira. Elsewhere on the forum AHB has written of tasting (I think) a 1792. I expect the oldest ports that members have drunk are at least half a century younger. Am I wrong?
What's the oldest port you've drunk? And was it the oldest drink of any kind that you've had, or have there been others older?
What's the oldest port you've drunk? And was it the oldest drink of any kind that you've had, or have there been others older?
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
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Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
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Re: Oldest bottles
With other obvious suspects I have enjoyed an 1830 Ferreira, supplied by CMAG. But AHB has posted TNs of an 1815 Ferreira, and of an 1815 Royal Oporto. Axel has posted about an 1834 Ferreira.
Re: Oldest bottles
AHB brought a bottle of something to my house a few years ago that I think was from the 18th century. I can't remember what is was but it wasn't Port.
"The first duty of Port is to be red"
Ernest H. Cockburn
Ernest H. Cockburn
Re: Oldest bottles
The region was formally demarcated in 1755, and fortification became standard near the turn of the century. An unfortified 1754, bottled in a bottle that couldn’t be racked, would not have been intended to last many decades.djewesbury wrote:This summer we tasted a 1795 Madeira. Elsewhere on the forum AHB has written of tasting (I think) a 1792. I expect the oldest ports that members have drunk are at least half a century younger. Am I wrong?
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Oldest bottles
The oldest vintage port (vs colheita) I have drunk with a definitive date was from 1922. I'm not counting:
- a "believed 1912" which was believable but not proven
- a "Whites of Leicester 1873" which was total vinegar
I have a bottle of something (just) older than 1922 to bring to the Bell this year, so will be guaranteed increase my "definitive oldest vintage port drunk", assuming nothing horrendous occurs in the interim!
The oldest drink of any style which I have drunk was the Oloroso 1830 sherry which Tom brought along last xmas.
- a "believed 1912" which was believable but not proven
- a "Whites of Leicester 1873" which was total vinegar
I have a bottle of something (just) older than 1922 to bring to the Bell this year, so will be guaranteed increase my "definitive oldest vintage port drunk", assuming nothing horrendous occurs in the interim!
The oldest drink of any style which I have drunk was the Oloroso 1830 sherry which Tom brought along last xmas.
Last edited by PhilW on 15:50 Tue 19 Nov 2013, edited 2 times in total.
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- Quinta do Vesuvio 1994
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Re: Oldest bottles
Some standardization of fortification is generally put around 1815 by the industry. But it is believed to be a bit later than that before wine making practices across the board are most similar to today's fortification methods.jdaw1 wrote:The region was formally demarcated in 1755, and fortification became standard near the turn of the century. An unfortified 1754, bottled in a bottle that couldn’t be racked, would not have been intended to last many decades.
Re: Oldest bottles
My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?
- djewesbury
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Re: Oldest bottles
jdaw1 wrote:My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?
But don't forget the Baron..Taylor, on their [url=http://taylor.pt/en/what-is-port-wine/history-of-port/fortification/]website[/url], wrote:However, not all merchants encouraged the practice and it was not until well into the 19th century that this method of fortification became widely adopted. Nevertheless, it gradually gained acceptance. The prosperity of the last years of the 18th century released the capital necessary to accumulate stocks of wine and mature them for longer. The superior ageing potential of Port wines that had been fortified became apparent. The turning point is sometimes said to have been the exceptional harvest of 1820 which produced Ports so magnificent that subsequent vintages could not approach their richness and power unless they were fortified. In any event, fortification had become widespread by the 1840s and by 1850 was probably universal.
He campaigned against fortification until his death in 1862
Daniel J.
Husband of a relentless former Soviet Chess Master.
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Re: Oldest bottles
No, from all I've read and been told there has never been an exact date where everything changed in unison. Hence, my use of "around". But around 1815 is generally regarded as the birth of modern Port. Though it wasn't believed until later, around the mid 1800's, where there seemed to be a more standard way of fortifying during fermentation.jdaw1 wrote:My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?
- uncle tom
- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Oldest bottles
Oldest port I've drunk was Ferreira 1830. Oldest I've opened was Unk 1851.
I have some half bottles of sherry with a solera date of 1770.
I have some half bottles of sherry with a solera date of 1770.
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I shall be sober and you will still be ugly - W.S. Churchill
Re: Oldest bottles
The oldest port I've drunk is Taylor's 1945.
Re: Oldest bottles
By oldest dou you mean earliest or of greater age when drunk? My answer would remain the same either way.djewesbury wrote:This summer we tasted a 1795 Madeira. Elsewhere on the forum AHB has written of tasting (I think) a 1792. I expect the oldest ports that members have drunk are at least half a century younger. Am I wrong?
What's the oldest port you've drunk? And was it the oldest drink of any kind that you've had, or have there been others older?
Re: Oldest bottles
Your reply began ‟No”, then seemed to agree with me. At least one of us misunderstanding.Andy Velebil wrote:No, from all I've read and been told there has never been an exact date where everything changed in unison. Hence, my use of "around". But around 1815 is generally regarded as the birth of modern Port. Though it wasn't believed until later, around the mid 1800's, where there seemed to be a more standard way of fortifying during fermentation.jdaw1 wrote:My understanding was that there was not a single date, but that around the turn of the century it went from rare to ubiquitous. Perhaps ubiquity had been reached by 1815?
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Oldest bottles
1860 for madeira, 1927 for port are my vital statistics. I can never bring myself to fork out for older ports these days purely on the quality price ratio. Madeira I can understand lashing out on as there is a reasonable chance of getting something good.
There is a reprint of 'the earliest port wine label' in John Hurley's 'A matter of taste; a history of wine drinking in Britain' which I am sure I have seen elsewhere. It reads; Companhia geral, do alto douro, vino tinto do douro, do anno de seventeen fifty six (in figures). Is this actually likely to have been port in any meaningful sense?
There is a reprint of 'the earliest port wine label' in John Hurley's 'A matter of taste; a history of wine drinking in Britain' which I am sure I have seen elsewhere. It reads; Companhia geral, do alto douro, vino tinto do douro, do anno de seventeen fifty six (in figures). Is this actually likely to have been port in any meaningful sense?
Re: Oldest bottles
In name only. As previously noted, Port wasn't generally a fortified wine until around 1815, so this would probably have been a dry red wine.LGTrotter wrote:Is this actually likely to have been port in any meaningful sense?
Glenn Elliott
Re: Oldest bottles
i've had a few 1880? ports during an old and odd a few years back when jdaw was in ny.
he also poured a thimble of some 1700 something madeira
recently i had a 1896 madeira from berns steakhouse in tampa (was surprinsingly delicious)!
he also poured a thimble of some 1700 something madeira
recently i had a 1896 madeira from berns steakhouse in tampa (was surprinsingly delicious)!
Disclosure: Distributor of Quevedo wines and Quinta do Gomariz
Re: Oldest bottles
Old & Odd, Friday 7th November 2008? (My TNs were more pretentious then.)g-man wrote:i've had a few 1880? ports during an old and odd a few years back when jdaw was in ny.
1792, wedding leftovers?g-man wrote:he also poured a thimble of some 1700 something madeira
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Oldest bottles
No! A few hundred words of Wilde paint a better picture than all that 'gobs of wurzelberry and 94+ points' malarkey ever will. is poorer for your lack of 'pretension'.jdaw1 wrote:Old & Odd, Friday 7th November 2008? (My TNs were more pretentious then.)
Re: Oldest bottles
LGTrotter wrote:No! A few hundred words of Wilde paint a better picture than all that 'gobs of wurzelberry and 94+ points' malarkey ever will. is poorer for your lack of 'pretension'.
In my simple way, if it stinks, it stinks, and I don’t like it.Oscar Wilde, in [i]The Birthday of the Infanta[/i], wrote:The Lizards ! took an immense fancy to him, and when he grew tired of running about and flung himself down on the grass to rest, they played and romped all over him, and tried to amuse him in the best way they could. ‟Every one cannot be as beautiful as a lizard,” they cried; ‟that would be too much to expect. And, though it sounds absurd to say so, he is really not so ugly after all, provided, of course, that one shuts one’s eyes, and does not look at him.”
And it was bunberry, not wurzelberry.
Re: Oldest bottles
yes and no.jdaw1 wrote:Old & Odd, Friday 7th November 2008? (My TNs were more pretentious then.)g-man wrote:i've had a few 1880? ports during an old and odd a few years back when jdaw was in ny.
1792, wedding leftovers?g-man wrote:he also poured a thimble of some 1700 something madeira
I believe you were going to a madiera tastin ghte next day, this was the day you were leaving ny and i brought the 1924 Taylor
Disclosure: Distributor of Quevedo wines and Quinta do Gomariz
Re: Oldest bottles
So on Tuesday 7th July 2009? If so, that was a Soviet 1936 Lividia.g-man wrote:I believe you were going to a madiera tastin ghte next day, this was the day you were leaving ny and i brought the 1924 Taylor
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Oldest bottles
I think Mr Wilde also said that anyone who called a spade a spade should be compelled to use one.jdaw1 wrote:In my simple way, if it stinks, it stinks, and I don’t like it.
And it was bunberry, not wurzelberry.
Perhaps you were on a 'Bunberry' to New York but I doubt you tasted one.
Re: Oldest bottles
Are we drifting off subject?Oscar Wilde wrote:Cecily. This is no time for wearing the shallow mask of manners. When I see a spade I call it a spade.
Gwendolen. I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.
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- Dalva Golden White Colheita 1952
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Re: Oldest bottles
Oh yes. But I see you are still quoting Oscar at me. Which gives me a the same warm feeling that 'the Happy Prince' must have had.jdaw1 wrote:Are we drifting off subject?Oscar Wilde wrote:Cecily. This is no time for wearing the shallow mask of manners. When I see a spade I call it a spade.
Gwendolen. I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.