Out of Curiosity

[Alex Bridgeman]

I was talking to Derek the other day and we were talking about the number of bottles we open from our cellars for either personal consumption or for sharing with other people at offlines or just with visitors to the home. It might be quite interesting for the producers who read this forum to know how many we drink as well as how many we buy.

I reckon that on average I open 2 bottles per week when I am at home - say a total of 100 to keep the numbers round - probably 1-2 a month for informal or smaller offlines, and a further dozen or so a year for the larger offlines. Call it a total of about 130 bottles per year.

How does this compare with other people?

[DRT]

I would reckon my number would be much the same as AHB's, so between two of us we have already accounted for around 22 cases being consumed.

It is probably also worth noting that my cellar has increased in size by around 100 bottles per annum in each of the past 3 years. Taking consumption into account that puts my buying at a rather worrying 20 cases per annum

[uncle tom]

Since returning from my winter sabbatical in March, I have opened 23 bottles of port for my own consumption at home, plus a further 16 bottles at various events away from home.

Of the bottles drunk at home, 19 were vintage, while 15 bottles of vintage were drunk at away events.

The average age of the vintage port drunk so far this year is 39 years and 11 days, the oldest bottle being from 1927 and the youngest 1991

Tom

[SushiNorth]

I average about 3 bottles per month (or 3 cases per year), and have acquired some 20 cases in the 18 months since joining TPF.

[Axel P]

Since I do a non-drinking month every year my consumption consist of only 11 months straight. I recon as well that I drink two bottles a week and the additional bottles for tastings, summing up to 130 bottles a year, though not all being Vintage Ports as I do very much like old Colheitas and aged Tawnies, too.

Axel

[g-man]

I drink about 3 cases per year not including offlines.

and I've bought about 11 cases of port since joining TPF

[JacobH]

The last time I counted, including offlines, I averaged a mere bottle a week over the year!

[Glenn E.]

I probably only drink 1 bottle per month out of my cellar, but that is a bit deceptive.

First, I'm still in aquisition mode. I've filled two wine refrigerators and am in the process of purchasing a third which will likely also fill up quickly. I assume (hope?) that some day either my consumption will increase or my purchasing will slow down, but I have seen no evidence of that just yet.

Second, I drink more like 4-5 bottles of Port per month, but most of the bottles I drink are still 20- and 40-yr old tawnies. I don't bother to cellar those because they're not going to be around long enough for it to matter.

Still... small potatoes compared to the rest of you guys.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Second, I drink more like 4-5 bottles of Port per month, but most of the bottles I drink are still 20- and 40-yr old tawnies. I don't bother to cellar those because they're not going to be around long enough for it to matter.

Still... small potatoes compared to the rest of you guys.

Hmm, 4-5 bottles per month equates to about 52 per year. Add in bottles of 2007 and offline bottles and you probably consume more than you realise. Given that you are still in acquisitive mode, that would make sense.

[g-man]

if you add dry reds .... you can double my # over my port consumption

[uncle tom]

if you add dry reds .... you can double my # over my port consumption

If I add the old claret I quaff it comes to an awful lot..

Tom

[Portman]

I am truly the lightweight here. I average around one bottle of port a month, and maybe twice that in the winter. This time of year in the southeastern US it is hot enough that beer is my beverage of choice, or a chilled white wine. I find vintage port and most reds are just too heavy in the heat.

I did have a nice 1995 Smith Woodhouse over the US 4th of July holiday, however. But we were in chilly Vermont which made it far more enjoyable.

[gerwin.degraaf]

I'm one of the lightweights too in this matter.

I am probably good for about 10-12 bottles of port a year, so far. On one hand, because I have just started buying/collecting Vintage ports (with 2005 as the first vintage of which I bought quite a lot of), and these bottles need some more time to mature before they can be opened and enjoyed.
Most of what I drink usually is wine. If I add up the bottles of wine which are opened a year, I'm closer to getting to 200-250 a year I'm afraid (it really seems like a whole lot of wine, just looking at this number ! ).

[g-man]

if you add dry reds .... you can double my # over my port consumption

If I add the old claret I quaff it comes to an awful lot..

Tom

!!! you drink more then 100 bottles a year not including offlines???

[uncle tom]

you drink more then 100 bottles a year not including offlines

Very roughly, my current annual intake of alcohol is as follows:

Port (all types) c. 72 btls
Other fortified wine c. 3 btls
White wine c. 36 btls
Red wine c. 144 btls
Spirits c. 2 btls
Licquers, vermouths etc. c 1 btl
Beer c. 800 pints

My tankard, which resides in my local pub, and has been there since I was 18, has held around 30,000 pints (I used to drink more beer and less wine than I do today)

The last time the doctor gave me an MOT, I had no alcohol related health issues (in fact, no issues at all)

Tom

[Glenn E.]

Second, I drink more like 4-5 bottles of Port per month, but most of the bottles I drink are still 20- and 40-yr old tawnies. I don't bother to cellar those because they're not going to be around long enough for it to matter.

Still... small potatoes compared to the rest of you guys.

Hmm, 4-5 bottles per month equates to about 52 per year. Add in bottles of 2007 and offline bottles and you probably consume more than you realise. Given that you are still in acquisitive mode, that would make sense.

Well... 4-5 bottles per month was meant to include offlines in the average. I do probably average one bottle a week over the year, but that's only because of events like the 2009 Port Gala, the Old & Odd that I attended in NYC, and my current flights of 2007 cask samples with Roy. After all, at an offline I might get to taste 10 bottles, but my personal consumption is (hopefully!) only 1 bottle. I leave multiple-bottles-in-one-night consumption to the experts.

Excluding offlines and events, I probably average 2 bottles per month over a full year. It would probably be something like 3/month during the winter, 2/month in the spring and fall, and 1/month in the summer.

[marc j.]

In round numbers I probably open 2 bottles of Port per week, although a good portion of that is shared with others. I also participate in 2-3 tasting events per month, so that adds an additional 30 bottles or so to the total. With all of that said, my purchasing far exceeds the amount of port that I consume in a typical year - its not even close. Looks as though I need to start drinking a little faster.....


Marc

[SushiNorth]

In round numbers I probably open 2 bottles of Port per week, although a good portion of that is shared with others. I also participate in 2-3 tasting events per month, so that adds an additional 30 bottles or so to the total.

Didn't see a post on Introductions, so welcome! (you should go post over there so everyone can properly say the same). I was just chatting with g-man last night about the undiscovered Port-lovers of NY -- where are they and why haven't they found us yet -- and it seems the answer is that they're in California. Perhaps this is the beginning of TPF tastings being organized over there...

[Andy Velebil]

Marc is a good guy and he and I drink together from time to time. Now if he would just make the long drive over to my house again some time an offline will be born Heck I'll even make the drive out there.

Oh yeah, for those that don't know Los Angeles is a BIG place, add in traffic and that 30 mile drive can take 3 hours

[marc j.]

Offline??? Sure! I'm more than ready for an offline in the upcoming weeks. Let's arrange something....

Marc

[oscar quevedo]

This is very precious information for the Port trade: the consumption habits of Port lovers! Thank you for sharing this!!

[SushiNorth]

This is very precious information for the Port trade: the consumption habits of Port lovers! Thank you for sharing this!!

Oscar, bear in mind that most of us tripled our purchase rate after joining this forum; so it's also valuable info for the port industry that pushing enthusiasts to connect and hold tastings increases sales. If they aren't pointing customers our way, they're leaving 2/3rds of the money on the table.

[uncle tom]

Oscar, bear in mind that most of us tripled our purchase rate after joining this forum; so it's also valuable info for the port industry that pushing enthusiasts to connect and hold tastings increases sales. If they aren't pointing customers our way, they're leaving 2/3rds of the money on the table.

That is very true. The ability to chat, meet and compare notes with fellow enthusiasts, both increases the cellars of those participating, and their consumption.

I also suspect that several people who used to major on Reserves and LBV, now drink VP to a much greater extent than before.

This of course, is very good news for the trade.

However, there is a downside from the producers point of view, in that we are also getting very much better informed, and much less tolerant of the margins demanded by the distributors and merchants.

Sooner or later, the producers will begin to recognise that there is a new facet to the market; one that can be profitably engaged, if a little lateral thought is deployed.

Tom

[Alex Bridgeman]

As I said in the title, it was curiosity that made me ask the question; curiosity borne from an estimate made at an offline one day that the people sitting round the table accounted for purchases of around 100 cases of port per year.

I've done a quick tally of the replies that we have had above. 11 people have shared their opening and buying habits. Between us, we consume around 70 cases of port and buy around 135. That is quite a lot of port, equivalent to half the annual vintage port production of one or two of the producers that I visited recently!

I think Tom makes an interesting point. The internet and Forums like this one and seem to have opened up a latent market. I know that despite having been a great lover of vintage port before I discovered the port forums, I buy and consume a lot more port now than I used to. Perhaps these forums are the modern equivalent of London and New York's great port consuming clubs? Their influence on us and their ability to allow us to organise offlines and run themed tastings is quite astonishing.

I also love the way in which they allow us to interact directly with producers. Without the forums and the internet, I would not (yet?) have heard of Quevedo's ports. With the influence of the internet, I can read Oscar's blog and grow my interest in the vineyard and the wines and will actively look out for them when I go browsing in the wine shops.

But I am still surprised at how few producers in Portugal are geared up and able to sell port to consumers in the EU via the internet. I can buy from retailers almost anywhere in Europe and pay the retailer to DHL (I work for them) anything from a single bottle to a full case to my address in the UK. But as far as I can see, I can't do anything similar direct from the cellar door. Perhaps this will be the next internet development for the producers who have only a limited network of distributors? Offer direct sales to consumers in countries where there is no agency or importer? It would be an interesting development to watch.

[jdaw1]

But I am still surprised at how few producers in Portugal are geared up and able to sell port to consumers in the EU via the internet. I can buy from retailers almost anywhere in Europe and pay the retailer to DHL (I work for them) anything from a single bottle to a full case to my address in the UK. But as far as I can see, I can't do anything similar direct from the cellar door. Perhaps this will be the next internet development for the producers who have only a limited network of distributors? Offer direct sales to consumers in countries where there is no agency or importer? It would be an interesting development to watch.

Perhaps DHL should write a proposal and send it to all the producers (via the IVDP, perhaps).

[oscar quevedo]

Your point is very interesting. The internet has reduced dramatically the distance between the winery and the consumer, specially with those like you that follow, discuss and want to get as much information as possible about a certain passion, in this case Port. Blogs, forums, generally speaking wine social media, is such a great tool that is revolutionizing the industry. And this is a great opportunity for small producers because the marketing is made by someone that represents the organization as a whole.

I do it for Quevedo as I am a Quevedo myself. For larger producers it can't work so well. Managing Directors are older, don't understand the importance of social media and don't have time to spend chatting with the fans of their wines. And it is not easy to choose someone of the second lines to represent the company because he/she never knows if the MD would agree with his/her comments. And social media requires you to be totally honest and transparent, otherwise you will fail.

So it's a good opportunity for a small winery like ours, we don't spend much money in marketing and I REALLY enjoy talking and discussing my points of view with you!

[DRT]

I do it for Quevedo as I am a Quevedo myself. For larger producers it can't work so well. Managing Directors are older, don't understand the importance of social media and don't have time to spend chatting with the fans of their wines. And it is not easy to choose someone of the second lines to represent the company because he/she never knows if the MD would agree with his/her comments. And social media requires you to be totally honest and transparent, otherwise you will fail.

That passage is a great summary of the difference between the old and the new port producers. We have discussed many times, mainly off-line, about the possibilities open to port producers who are willing to be open with their views and engage directly with people like us in a public forum. Oscar's words sum up why that simply isn't possible for some. I think this opens up a fantastic sales channel for the small producer like Oscar who could openly market his products in a way that the big boys just cannot do.

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

I completely agree with the point made by Derek. In the absence of the internet and Oscar's blog, I would likely never had heard of Quevedo ports and wines. Even if I had, I would likely not have tried them in today's crowded market place that is full of different choices.

But, we do have the internet and through the internet I have learnt about Quevedo, some of the family history and Quevedo has made itself stand out from the crowded market place by reaching out to me and letting me read and learn about the vineyard and the growing seasons and the wines which are made. Because of this, I will buy Quevedo wines and will enjoy telling my friends all about the family and where the wines are made - and will show them pictures on the website.

So from the first connection through the internet, Oscar has achieved the most valuble type of viral marketing - the personal recommendation and referral to the Quevedo website. Long may the website continue (but will we ever be able to order wine direct from it...? )

Alex

[oscar quevedo]

Long may the website continue (but will we ever be able to order wine direct from it...? )

Alex

Yes, you do Alex! We don't mention it on our blog but due to some interest of our readers, we started shipping our wines to private clients in any European country. I'll send you the catalogue. We are currently working with Chronopost, but a proposal from DHL would be very welcome, just as Julian said!

Anyways, I will fix it in our blog, so people can see we ship directly from the winery.

[g-man]

Long may the website continue (but will we ever be able to order wine direct from it...? )

Alex

Yes, you do Alex! We don't mention it on our blog but due to some interest of our readers, we started shipping our wines to private clients in any European country. I'll send you the catalogue. We are currently working with Chronopost, but a proposal from DHL would be very welcome, just as Julian said!

Anyways, I will fix it in our blog, so people can see we ship directly from the winery.

Hi Oscar,

would any of us NY tpf'ers be in the position to try the quevedo?

[oscar quevedo]

Hi Oscar,

would any of us NY tpf'ers be in the position to try the quevedo?

G-man, as I'm in town, lets make a Port Wine tasting next Tuesday with some Quevedo Port included!!

You're all invited to join!

[Andy Velebil]

As we've seen and many of us have talked about on and offline, Social Media is the wave of the future for smaller and medium sized producers. The one major benefit I've seen with many smaller wineries here in California is it gives the consumer a "family" feeling with the producer and a sense of being part of the winery itself. That pays off major dividends even in not so great years, as people have a tendency to continue to buy good amounts of wine to support the winery in those lesser years.

And lets face it, we the nerdy wine consumer like to talk to the producers in an effort to learn more about them, their product, and their winery. But more than that, about who they are as a person. The day of the old stodgy executive running a wine company from behind a desk and shielded from all by 2 personal secretaries is slowly coming to an end. From what I've seen people are increasing put off by companies that will not engage the public in a timely and informative basis. Social and interactive media, in various forms, are the wave of the future.

[jdaw1]

So as soon as I leave NY the other residents starting holding tastings with the wine makers. Great long may the NY chapter of continue.

[smisse]

Hi Oscar,
I'm interested in your vintage 2007.
What are your current shipping prices to the Netherlands or Belgium for one case?
Who will provide you pricing from DHL? (I work for DHL so can try to help)
rgrds,
Dries

[oscar quevedo]

Hi Oscar,
I'm interested in your vintage 2007.
What are your current shipping prices to the Netherlands or Belgium for one case?
Who will provide you pricing from DHL? (I work for DHL so can try to help)
rgrds,
Dries

Dries, I'll send you a list of our prices, and if anyone is interested in knowing prices in your area, let me know and I'll send you a pricing sheet.

[gerwin.degraaf]

Hi Oscar,
I'm interested in your vintage 2007.
What are your current shipping prices to the Netherlands or Belgium for one case?
Who will provide you pricing from DHL? (I work for DHL so can try to help)
rgrds,
Dries

Dries, I'll send you a list of our prices, and if anyone is interested in knowing prices in your area, let me know and I'll send you a pricing sheet.

Dear Oscar,

I am interested in your Vintages (2005 and 2007) as well. Could you please send me a list of prices (incl. shipping costs to The Netherlands) as well?
Thanks in advance,
best regards,
Gerwin

[jdaw1]

France, please. Other choices aren’t good.

[uncle tom]

Dum dum de dum dum, dum dum, dee- dum dum, de dum de dum dum; dee de dum...

Cruz Pink??? - Julian! - get a grip man! - this masochism has gone too far...!!

Tom