Removing well-glued labels?

[djewesbury]

I drunk a very passable Pfalz Riesling the other night (no TN as I didn't take one, and at the time noticed only that it had the extreme minerality that I've encountered in other Pfalz Riesling Trockens). Anyway, the label has a beautiful Jugendstihl design and I thought I'd be able to soak it off to keep. However, it's rather well glued and won't come off simply by soaking.

Any suggestions? I have now filled the bottle with boiling water to see if it softens the glue at all.

[djewesbury]

Gah. Too late. Tore it. It was nearly off too.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Filling the bottle with boiling water is a dangerous path to follow - I've done that for the same reason as you did and had the bottle crack, releasing boiling water all over the worktop and floor.

I've found through experimentation that two things work for me:
(a) put the bottle in the oven at around 80C for 10 minutes or so. The glue should then be soft enough to lift a corner of the label with a sharp knife and successfully pull the label off. Allow the label to cool glue side up and when cool use kitchen towel or something similar to cover the glue.

(b) put the entire bottle in a sink and slowly fill with the hottest water you can from the tap. Filling inside and out and filling slowly seems to prevent thermal shock from damaging the bottle. Allow the bottle to float in hot water for around 10 minutes and then carefully peel the label off the bottle - sometimes it will come off easily but if it needs persuasion I use a Stanley knife blade in a gadget I have for scraping paint off windows. Once the label is free allow it to cool but cover it immediately with kitchen towel on both sides and put a heavy book on top to prevent the label from warping.

[DRT]

I have no idea how but it seems logical to me that a dishwasher without detergent could be useful here.

[AW77]

A Jugendstil label on a wine from the Palatinate. This must surely be a wine by Bassermann-Jordan. They really have beautiful labels.

[djewesbury]

A Jugendstil label on a wine from the Palatinate. This must surely be a wine by Bassermann-Jordan. They really have beautiful labels.

It was of course, thank you to the German Wine Detective!

[djewesbury]

I meant to say, they're not only beautifully designed but really beautifully printed too. Now I need to buy another just to get the label off!

[AW77]

Here are some links to pictures of the labels for other TPF members:

http://www.bassermann-jordan.de/de/weine/etiketten.html
(bottle on the left)

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http ... CCwQrQMwBA

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http ... K8BEK0DMC4
(Click on "Mehr Ansichten" to see the label)

[LGTrotter]

the label has a beautiful Jugendstihl design and I thought I'd be able to soak it off to keep.

Do you mount them?

[djewesbury]

the label has a beautiful Jugendstihl design and I thought I'd be able to soak it off to keep.

Do you mount them?

Not usually. But this has such an intricate line-drawing and the litho is so wonderfully clear and fine that I was going to keep it in my notebook.

[uncle tom]

This thread got me wondering which chemicals are currently used in label adhesives.

A little research suggests that most are Acrylate based, and a little more digging suggests that most Acrylates are soluble in DMF (Dimethylformamide) which is a fairly common and cheap solvent, although I don't personally have any.

- Might be worth a try, although I can't guarantee the inks used on the label won't also be soluble..!

[djewesbury]

This thread got me wondering which chemicals are currently used in label adhesives.

A little research suggests that most are Acrylate based, and a little more digging suggests that most Acrylates are soluble in DMF (Dimethylformamide) which is a fairly common and cheap solvent, although I don't personally have any.

- Might be worth a try, although I can't guarantee the inks used on the label won't also be soluble..!

Tom, we can always trust you to come up with a solution that carries a health warning. Thank you! I will get the DMF out tonight and knock myself out.
EDIT:

[DRT]

DMF (Dimethylformamide)

I think that's what they pickle babies and body parts in at Surgeon's Hall in Edinburgh. The best day out for teenage schoolboys that money can't buy

[AW77]

Speaking of labels: not only the glue is an important factor, but also the paper itself. I wonder how many labels were lost in the past because the paper contained acid and turned brittle after say 20 years. Anyone who has ever browsed through an old Penguin paperback knows what I mean.

[LGTrotter]

I thought that all paper had additives which meant that it decomposed over time? I assumed it was bleach but perhaps it was acid, ie something that made the paper white. Which is why I keep my cellar records on vellum.

[AW77]

Before ca. 1970 most paper contained lignin, which is quite acidic and thus destroys paper over time. Nowadays good quality paper is lignin-free and thus acid-free. You can recognise older lignin-containing paper in that it turns yellow and breaks easily if you browse the page (most easily at the edges). Most books that were printed in the 2nd half of the 19th century will simply crumble into tiny bits in the not too far future. One can use deacidification, but this is expensive and only slows the process down. So one should digitize all those books (if only the problem of digital long-term preservation was solved yet). But this takes the discussion too far off-topic. I just wanted to point out that old labels may come off just because the paper crumbles due to it's acidity.

Vellum. Quite clever, I guess in 1000 years historians will still be able to reconstruct what was drunk in Somerset at the turn of the millenium. But I guess that your cellar will not be representative for the common Somerset man.

[LGTrotter]

Thank you Andre, I hoped you might explain a little, albeit a bit off topic.

[Alex Bridgeman]

So do we need to lobby the IVDP to mandate vellum labels to be used on vintage port for all future vintages?

[DRT]

So do we need to lobby the IVDP to mandate vellum labels to be used on vintage port for all future vintages?

Yes. Give the IVDP even more power. That's a great idea

[PhilW]

Any suggestions? I have now filled the bottle with boiling water to see if it softens the glue at all.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I would try using a hot air gun (or hair dryer), or steam.

[Glenn E.]

Any suggestions? I have now filled the bottle with boiling water to see if it softens the glue at all.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I would try using a hot air gun (or hair dryer), or steam.

Or, perhaps, do it backwards. Don't remove the label; remove the glass. Once most of it has been carefully removed, the rest will likely come off easily as Phil has suggested.

Of course this won't work if you wish to save the bottle.