The "Deeper Underground" Offline (28 Jan 2008)

[jdaw1]

Splendid splash of paint on the Fonseca. Commendation!

[DRT]

Update:

Votes FOR including the Nacional 1966: 12

Votes AGAINST including the Nacional 1966: 1

Votes NOT YET CAST: 0


I think we need a re-count

[Conky]

I wonder who the 'one' was. Who doesn't run with the herd. Who likes being contrary. Hmmm...

I suppose some things are left unsaid.

[jdaw1]

Flight 1: The Guest of Honour

• Adam's.

Flight 2: The Taylor Fladgate Trio

• Croft;
• Fonseca;
• Taylor's.

Flight 3: The Symington Quartet

• Dow's;
• Graham's;
• Warre's;
• Berry Bros.

Flight 4: The Taylor Fladgate Other Trio

• Delaforce;
• Offley Boa Vista;
• Morgan

Flight 5: The Other Three

• Avery's;
• Quinta do Noval;
• Robertson's Rebello Valente.

Is this ordering generally agreed? With Nacional going where? In five, I hope. (I ask ’cause I’ll arrange placemats so keep things in suits.)

[KillerB]

How about Flight 6: Nacional?

[Ghandih]

I wonder who the 'one' was. Who doesn't run with the herd. Who likes being contrary. Hmmm...

I suppose some things are left unsaid.

I confess twas I. Julian has been extremely (I might almost say exponentially) kind to let me taste some of his Novals, and they have been rather light on flavour for me, liker of Taylor and (I have learnt with my friends at TPF) Fonseca. Julian also introduced me to Nacional, and would concede that the bottle we had together was poor. I am therefore resigned to not agreeing with the masses about the merits of this shipper, and the disproportionate prices of the Nacional.

However, all that said, the news from Dubbers is that those lawyer folk can probably wangle my freedom for a night, so I UP FOR IT, and, in that position, would not like to be a rotten stick in the mud that makes things tricky.

So, my preference remains not to fork out the extra for the Nacional, but I would very much like to come, and would accept being forced to drink it, in the light of team unity.

If that doesn't make me more magnanimous that Magnus Magnanimous Magnusson I don't know what does!


Ghhhhhhhhhhandi

[Ghandih]

PS Do I get a badge?

[jdaw1]

With Mhahghnhuhsh Mhahghnhahnhihmhohuhsh Mhahghnhuhshshohn willing to join the team, we are functionally equivalent to unanimous. So everyone’s happy, or at least playing along.

But I want Noval and Nacional in the same flight.

[jdaw1]

Current draft of placemat updated, and now on A3 on account of AHB’s splendid printing facilities, and—more joy!—tasting notes split over two pages.

Flights, as indicated on that placemat:

• ☺ Adam
  
  ♣ Croft
  ♣ Fonseca
  ♣ Taylor
  
  ♦ Dow
  ♦ Graham
  ♦ Warre
  ♦ Berry Bros. & Rudd Selection
  
  ♥ Delaforce
  ♥ Morgan
  ♥ Offley Boa Vista
  
  ♠ Avery
  ♠ Quinta do Noval
  ♠ Quinta do Noval Nacional
  ♠ Robertson’s Rebello Valente

[KillerB]

Current draft of placemat updated, and now on A3 on account of AHB’s splendid printing facilities, and—more joy!—tasting notes split over two pages.

Flights, as indicated on that placemat:

• ☺ Adam
  
  ♣ Croft
  ♣ Fonseca
  ♣ Taylor
  
  ♦ Dow
  ♦ Graham
  ♦ Warre
  ♦ Berry Bros. & Rudd Selection
  
  ♥ Delaforce
  ♥ Morgan
  ♥ Offley Boa Vista
  
  ♠ Avery
  ♠ Quinta do Noval
  ♠ Quinta do Noval Nacional
  ♠ Robertson’s Rebello Valente

I accept, in the strictest sense, that those are rombi, although definitely equilateral, they ain't bleedin' diamonds.

[Conky]

Whats the Berrys Bros & Rudd bottle? They are just bottlers in England, aren't they? Whats the juice?

Alan

[jdaw1]

BBR told me when I bought it, half a decade or so ago, that their BOB 1966 was Warre. Luckily, we can test that hypothesis!

[jdaw1]

Are they suit symbols on the PDF file?

Annoyingly not-quite-unicode phpBB 2. When are we upgrading to 3?

[DRT]

I wonder who the 'one' was. Who doesn't run with the herd. Who likes being contrary. Hmmm...

I suppose some things are left unsaid.

I confess twas I. Julian has been extremely (I might almost say exponentially) kind to let me taste some of his Novals, and they have been rather light on flavour for me, liker of Taylor and (I have learnt with my friends at TPF) Fonseca. Julian also introduced me to Nacional, and would concede that the bottle we had together was poor. I am therefore resigned to not agreeing with the masses about the merits of this shipper, and the disproportionate prices of the Nacional.

However, all that said, the news from Dubbers is that those lawyer folk can probably wangle my freedom for a night, so I UP FOR IT, and, in that position, would not like to be a rotten stick in the mud that makes things tricky.

So, my preference remains not to fork out the extra for the Nacional, but I would very much like to come, and would accept being forced to drink it, in the light of team unity.

If that doesn't make me more magnanimous that Magnus Magnanimous Magnusson I don't know what does!


Ghhhhhhhhhhandi

iaGhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhdn,

This is fabulous news. I am glad to hear that the Irish can cope alone and even more glad to hear that you have made the final result of this poll:

Votes FOR including the Nacional 1966: 13

Votes AGAINST including the Nacional 1966: 0

I have a feeling jdaw will be beavering away at constructing a suitable badge as I type this.

Derek

[DRT]

Whats the Berrys Bros & Rudd bottle? They are just bottlers in England, aren't they? Whats the juice?

BBR told me when I bought it, half a decade or so ago, that their BOB 1966 was Warre. Luckily, we can test that hypothesis!

Michael Broadbent (Vintage Wine)

Berry Brothers Selection
A superbly balanced wine blended and bottled in Berry Bros style...Still deep, relatively youthful for its age; harmonious, waxy bouquet, fairly sweet, nice weight, elegant, well balanced. In short, delicious. Shipped via Percy Fox & Co, then Warre's agents.
Last tasted 1989 *****

Broadbent's text implies that this is not the same wine as Warre's own 1966 VP, but is a wine produced specifically for BBR (possibly by Warre's) and shipped to them by Warre's agents of the time. We shall see whether or not Broadbent is correct when we pull the cork

Derek

[DRT]

With...

1. the Nacional now confirmed in the line-up;
2. the need to keep the Noval and Noval Nacional in the same flight;
3. the need to avoid having the Nacional too far down the list of flights; and,
4. the fact that no one spotted that Offley is not a Taylor Fladgate house and therefore should not have been in Flight 4.

...I would suggest the following changes to the flights...

• ☺ Adam
  
  ♣ Quinta do Noval Nacional
  ♣ Quinta do Noval
  ♣ Fonseca
  ♣ Taylor
  
  ♦ Dow
  ♦ Graham
  ♦ Warre
  ♦ Berry Bros. & Rudd Selection
  
  ♥ Croft
  ♥ Delaforce
  ♥ Morgan
  
  ♠ Offley Boa Vista
  ♠ Avery
  ♠ Robertson’s Rebello Valente

Please note that there is a better than average chance that a Sandeman 1966 will join this line-up shortly. If it does, I would suggest we add it to the final flight.

Jdaw, please update the tasting mats accordingly.

Thanks

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'd like to request a change to the flights proposed if we are going to be including the Nacional in the line-up.

I've been doing a but of research into the Avery bottling and it seems that it might be a bit of an oddity. I have read that this could be a blend of port shipped by Taylor, Fonseca and Graham that was blended and bottled in the UK. As a result of reading this little gem, I'd like to line the Avery up close to the heavyweights.

Could I suggest we tweak the flights so that become:

Flight 1
The guest of honour - Adam's

Flight 2
Taylor Fladgate Partnership
Croft
Fonseca
Taylor

Flight 3
Noval and Guest
Noval
Nacional
Avery

Flight 4
The Symingtons
Dow
Graham
Warre
Berry Brothers (which I can confirm is the Warre wine)

Flight 5
The potential surprises
Delaforce
Morgan
Offley
Rebello Valente


My personal preference would be to taste the Nacional before my palate gets too jaded and I would also like to taste the Avery in the context of the Taylor, Fonseca and Graham.

How does this sound to people?

Alex

[DRT]

Alex,

Given that the Avery's is two-thirds Taylor Fladgate I think we should add it to Flight 2 and leave the Noval's on their own in Flight 3. The other flights look fine to me.

OK?

Derek

PS: Please note that I chose to make this a BlackBerry-friendly post, despite the temptation to do otherwise knowning your current predicament

[Alex Bridgeman]

I'm more than happy with the revised flights...

but less than happy with my ISP at the moment!

[DRT]

The revised flights are as follows...

Flight 1: The Guest of Honour

• ☺Adam's

Flight 2: Taylor Fladgate Partnership

• ♣ Avery's
  ♣ Croft
  ♣ Fonseca
  ♣ Taylor's

Flight 3: The Novals

• ♦ Quinta do Noval
  ♦ Quinta do Noval Nacional

Flight 4: The Symington Family

• ♥ Berry Brothers Selection
  ♥ Dow's
  ♥ Graham's
  ♥ Warre's

Flight 5: The Potential Surprises

• ♠ Delaforce
  ♠ Morgan
  ♠ Offley Boa Vista
  ♠ Robertson's Rebello Valente

Jdaw, unless anyone objects, can you please update the placemats to reflect the above. If the Sandeman joins the list it can be a surprise, and will therefore slot nicely into flight 5.

Derek

Note for AHB: Although you cannot see it on your BlackBerry the flight titles are now in bold type and each flight properly displayed as an indented list.

Edited to ensure proper use of the posessive, where appropriate.

[DRT]

In case anyone hasn't worked it out, the unicode symbols jdaw has introduced to denote each flight are not all properly displayed in the posts due to the limitations of the phBB software version we are using.

The character that is displayed as ☺ in front of Adam is actually a unicode smiley face. This can be seen on the tasting mat or if you copy and paste the symbol into Word or Notepad.

This is yet another indication of jdaw being slightly off form this week

Derek

[Conky]

As a few are chipping in, so will I. I agree with flights of four bottles each. The first one should include the first drink - Adams. The second and third flight (The money groups) should include the Fonseca/Noval groupings. The last should be the 'quirky, end of evening, going to struggle to compete, but you never know bottles'.

I'm happy to go along with anything, but would suggest your over complicating matters to make it just so. There's only a few out of the group who are anal-ly retentive over Port. Whereas the opinion you have on the Port can be as technical or Laurence Llewelyn - Bowen as you desire, and will entertain the crowd, the serving of it should be user friendly and unpretentious.

Somehow, I suspect this wont fly, as I'm in the Lair of the PortHead, speaking up for the real world.

Alan.

[DRT]

Alan,

Perhaps if I explain some other things I can aleviate your concerns.

Behind the scenes, principally because it is not practical for 13 people to organise one event, AHB, Jdaw and I have been debating how to organise the evening so that it goes smoothly and we maximise the time available to enjoy each others company and the ports. What we have come up with is as follows:

1. We will attempt to get all of the ports to the venue by 4pm on 28th January. I am taking the bottles I have to The Crusting Pipe this Monday coming to allow them time to stand before decanting and also so that they do not have to undergo a 200 mile train journey on the day of the tasting. Jdaw and AHB are bringing their bottles to the venue at 4pm on the 28th. I will have separate discussions with the others (JK and Simon) who are bringing bottles to try to get them there as early as possible.

2. We have managed to reserve both tunnels at The Crusting Pipe. These are side by side with a common entrance. One tunnel will be used for eating and drinking some prelimenary port (water or wine for the Jessies amongst us) and we will then move to the second tunnel to taste the 1966s.

3. AHB, Jdaw and I will meet at the Pipe at 16:00 on the 28th to decant the ports. We will then set out the Placemats and pour an even measure of each port for each person. Depending on how many glasses we secure from the venue we may have to leave one or two ports in the bottle until empty glasses become available. I really don't think this will be necessary but that's our contingency for glass shortage.

4. We plan to start the event at 18:30. By that time, Tunnel 2 will have 13 places set, each with 15 port glasses filled and layed out on the placemats. This area will be off limits to everyone, including staff, until around 20:30, by which time the ports will have had around 4 hours of air time.

5. We will eat between 18:30 and 20:30. This will allow anyone who cannot make the early start to join us before we commence the tasting. AHB has already suggested somewhere that we buy a couple of bottles of port from the Pipe to enjoy with the meal. Delaforce 1985 has been suggested as a likely victim and it is thought that this would be covered by the £50 per head that was estimated for food, corkage, glasses etc.

6. When we sit down to taste the port you will hopefully have all 15 wines layed out in front of you. Some of us will choose to deal with these in flights, taking notes, talking about coal dust and over-ripe willy-willy fruit etc. Others may choose to just work their way through the wines in whatever order takes their fancy. Both approaches, and any other that an individual chooses, are valid and acceptable.

7. One thing to bear in mind when starting to drink the ports is that there will be nothing left in the bottles. So what you have in your glass at the beginning is all you will have of each wine. For this reason I expect many will choose to taste all of them briefly and then re-visit each before whacking them back in reverse order of greatness. At least that's my plan

Hopefully this plan is user-friendly enough to stop you worrying that its all too anal.

Pretentious? Moi?

Derek

[Conky]

Fairs, fair.

With flesh on the bones, it does sound well thought out and user friendly. I'm glad I posted and you responded in that way, as I hope it will assist those who dip in to the Forum on a casual basis, and who are coming to the Tasting. They will now see that its not all about a few nerds discussing the running order, which can be intimidating, but that there will be personal freedom, and a well thought out, but relaxed atmosphere.
Now that perception has been established, please feel free to continue your discussion about 'Flight' options, like the group of 'hyperactive Brides Mothers' that I know and love.

Alan

[jdaw1]

Jdaw, please update the tasting mats accordingly.

Away this weekend: will cope Monday.

AHB: please would you test print the first page onto A3 Monday morning and confirm that the smiley and suit flight symbols all appear satisfactorily. Thanks. (And print one person’s TN pages onto A4 for like purpose.)

[DRT]

Away this weekend

Hopefully to have you pedantic and retentive qualities refreshed and revived.

Derek

[jdaw1]

Away this weekend

Hopefully to have you pedantic and retentive qualities refreshed and revived.

Derek

… your …

[Conky]

The halfwit was too busy correcting my Apostrophe crimes to check his own Posts...

You could not make it up.

[DRT]

Away this weekend

Hopefully to have you pedantic and retentive qualities refreshed and revived.

Derek

… your …

Welcome back, jdaw1

Now, take it easy. Don't try to do too much at once or you might take a backward step.

[DRT]

IMPORTANT NOTICE

To all attendees of this Offline,

Now that we have confirmation that the Noval Nacional 1966 is joining the line-up I can tell you that it is being supplied from the cellar of AHB (Alex Bridgeman for those who do not know his full name).

Given the total sum involved, it is only fitting that we all pay our share of £42.30 to Alex BEFORE 28th January. I will be sending each of you a PM today or tomorrow with details of Alex's bank account so that you can make payment to him by internet or telephone banking.

If anyone does not have these facilities please let me know ASAP so that we can make alternative arrangements and make sure Alex has all of the money he is due before the event.

Please note that Alex has specifically requested that he does not receive cash payments on the night of the off-line.

Your full co-operation with this request will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

Jdaw, please update the tasting mats accordingly.

Away this weekend: will cope Monday.

AHB: please would you test print the first page onto A3 Monday morning and confirm that the smiley and suit flight symbols all appear satisfactorily. Thanks. (And print one person’s TN pages onto A4 for like purpose.)

Will do, may need a reminder, if possible.

[Alex Bridgeman]

A while back, Conky asked how much port would be in each glass if we had a large-ish number of people sharing a bottle of port.

I opened a miniature (50cl) bottle of fruit wine this evening and have been drinking it from a port glass - it reminded me of Conky's question.

Assuming that you lose around 50cl of port though the decanting process, you end up with 50cl per person when the rest of the bottle is shared between 14 people. In my port glass, 50cl came about 2/3rds the way up to the widest part of the glass and was enough for 4 reasonable mouthfuls. Not a large glass of port, but enough for a decent experience.

Alex

[DRT]

The following bottles are now at The Crusting Pipe...

• Fonseca
• Graham's
• Offley Boa Vista
• Quinta do Noval
• Robertson's Rebello Valente

Derek

[jdaw1]

The Deeper Underground 1966 Horizontal, held at the Crusting Pipe, Covent Garden, London WC2E 8RD, on Monday 28 January 2008.

Links:

• Planning and arrangements: pages 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15;
• Review of the evening as a whole;
• TN: Adam 1966;
• TN: Avery 1966;
• TN: Croft 1966;
• TN: Delaforce 1966;
• TN: Dow 1966;
• TN: Fonseca 1966;
• TN: Graham 1966;
• TN: Morgan 1966;
• TN: Noval 1966;
• TN: Noval Nacional 1966;
• TN: Offley Boa Vista 1966;
• TN: Robertson’s Rebello Valente 1966;
• TN: Taylor 1966;
• TN: Warre 1966;
• TN: Berry Brothers & Rudd 1966.

Perhaps suppliers of bottles could post information about provenance in the appropriate TN threads?

[DRT]

The revised flights are as follows...

Flight 1: The Guest of Honour

• ☺Adam's

Flight 2: Taylor Fladgate Partnership

• ♣ Avery's
  ♣ Croft
  ♣ Fonseca
  ♣ Taylor's

Flight 3: The Novals

• ♦ Quinta do Noval
  ♦ Quinta do Noval Nacional

Flight 4: The Symington Family

• ♥ Berry Brothers Selection
  ♥ Dow's
  ♥ Graham's
  ♥ Warre's

Flight 5: The Potential Surprises

• ♠ Delaforce
  ♠ Morgan
  ♠ Offley Boa Vista
  ♠ Robertson's Rebello Valente

Jdaw, unless anyone objects, can you please update the placemats to reflect the above. If the Sandeman joins the list it can be a surprise, and will therefore slot nicely into flight 5.

Derek

As there were no further objections these are now the confirmed flights. It is now highly unlikely that a Sandeman will join the line-up.

Jdaw, please update the Placemats accordingly.

Thanks

Derek

[jdaw1]

Placemat updated. Alex: please test print to A3 (placemats) and A4 (tasting note sheets). Please check that:

• Water doesn’t make colour run (toner doesn’t, ink does);
• Suit symbols print well;
• All the facts appear to be correct.

Also please print the sheets to help the decanting team.

[Alex Bridgeman]

I plan to be in the office early on Monday, and will do the test printing then. I'll be using a colour laser printer so the printing will not run.

[jdaw1]

I'll be using a colour laser printer so the printing will not run.

Print dialog boxes typically have a colour|B&W toggle. Please choose B&W.

[Ghandih]

All,

I could almost propose that the dull printing stuff be taken elsewhere, but I guess it does serve to remind us that our good friends are beavering away behind the scene, like swan legs, you might (and I did) say, getting things ready for next week.

I've got my calculator out, tapped in some numbers, and come to the conclusion that we're less than seven days away from a remarkable port tasting occasion. After the delight of the Fonseca 66 at the F-Plan offline last autumn, I really can't wait to try all those beauties all together in one place.

Is anyone else mildly excited by the prospect?


Ghandih

[DRT]

To quote a mutual friend, I'm so excited I'm bouncing up and down like a child!

[DRT]

Simon Lisle has given me his three bottles. I will being them to the venue on the morning of the event where they will stand until the decanting happens at 16:00

Derek

[Alex Bridgeman]

It would not be inaccurate to describe me as potentially evidencing signs of demonstrable anticipation...but stiff upper lips chaps. We are British you know.

Rather!

[Alex Bridgeman]

I've had a heads-up that there may be a couple of more people who may not be able to make the tasting on Monday.

If this turns out to be the case, I can't in all good conscience, take their money for the Nacional knowing that they will not be with us. Instead, I propose that we keep the Nacional for another day and that I return the money that I have already received towards the cost of the bottle. I propose to do this in two ways:

(1) those who are absent on the night will receive a bank transfer or similar refund

(2) those who are present on the night will have the money that I have received put towards the overall cost of the night and we will then split the difference remaining between us.

If anyone feels very strongly that they would like me to do something different, then please drop me a PM and we can discuss. I could still be persuaded to contribute the Nacional '66 but the cost would possibly be shared between only 10 people and not the original 13.

Alex

[jdaw1]

Do you and Derek want to send me, in the next few hours, new flight arrangements for a Nacional-free tasting?

[Alex Bridgeman]

Back to plan B. We are expecting 12 people for Monday's tasting so we can go back to including the Nacional in the line up provided everyone is willing to add an additional £4 each as we go from sharing the cost between 13 people to sharing between 12.

I shall stand the bottle back up again!

Alex

[jdaw1]

Back to plan B.

Err, plan A surely?

[Simon Lisle]

I'm looking forward to monday I just hope the missus realises that all my port is money well spent.

[jdaw1]

money well spent

Money? Oh, you mean drink tokens.

[Alex Bridgeman]

Back to plan B.

Err, plan A surely?

Not quite - plan A includes John. I'd love for him to be able to join us at the last minute, but we are planning that he won't be able to make it.

[Alex Bridgeman]

So I pulled my bottles for the '66 tasting out of their resting places last night. I can now officially describe myself as excited.

The only question is, what do I open over the weekend to build up to the events of Monday?

Alex